Cats inside house (2 Cats Dead; 1 Cat Adopted; 1 Raccoon, 1 Possum Relocated)

[LightPhoenix]

Hellhound, I have to say that does not make sense to me:

See the following for why

You're seriously comparing letting animals (be it dog/cat/raccoon/whatever) doing what comes naturally to letting your children do drugs? That is simply one of the most asinine things I've ever read or heard.

 

[Wystan]

No, I am using an Extreme Example that letting an animal control you is silly. My Bengal and my Ocecat would love to go outside. I do not want them to do so as it is bad for them.

I added a Less Extreme Example of the hazards of letting my animals do as they please.

And Note - Anti-Freeze Puddles ARE DEADLY to animals and do not Occur Naturally Inside a House....

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

No, I am using an Extreme Example that letting an animal control you is silly. My Bengal and my Ocecat would love to go outside. I do not want them to do so as it is bad for them.

I added a Less Extreme Example of the hazards of letting my animals do as they please.

And Note - Anti-Freeze Puddles ARE DEADLY to animals and do not Occur Naturally Inside a House....

But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.

 

[John Morrow]

Actually, outdoor cats here have more enemies than friends. This doesn't even begin with the Ticks, Fleas, and diseases outdoor cats can catch.

I've heard that the lifespan of an outdoor cat is something like 5 years on average. That's why all of our pet cats are indoor-only cats. It's certainly best to keep pet cats indoor. But given all the other animals in your area, any of them can be destructive, including birds. Around here, it's deer that destroy people's yards (NJ has the highest deer density in the United States), rabbits that destroy gardens, raccoons that overturn garbage cans, Canadian Geese that foul lawns and ponds with their doppings (worse than anything you've described and they are protected by law), and so on. I'll take your word for it about the problems you've been having but we've never had a problem with the sort of stray cats from Hell that you seem to be cursed with. The main thing that seems to bother people about cats around here i that they use bird feeders as cat feeders, but given that starlings seem to be a big target and they aren't native to North America, I think that's often more good than bad. Now if we could only get stray cats to eat Canadian Geese, we'd be golden.

 

[Wystan]

But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.

No, but they should be supervised until such time as you can be sure that they understand what to do and not to do. Since Animals tend to NOT SPEAK HUMAN LANGUAGES, it is a lot harder to ever be sure they understand (I can tell you that my cat of 5 years still does not understand that yelling for his food when I am 6 inches away causes me to delay the food until he does not yell for 5-6 seconds.)

So as to children going out to play, sure if you feel that your 3 year old (More mentally advanced than most animals I have met) is fine to walk the neighborhood unobserved by you, then by all means do so.

 

[Jeysie]

But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.

1. Kids are more intelligent than cats. Not always greatly more intelligent (I did some dumb stuff as a kid...), but still, animals have no clue what is and isn't dangerous for them. Kids you can at least supervise them staying in the playground or the backyard. (I've tried supervising a cat to stay in the backyard. Doesn't work, unless you have a high fence.)

For instance, the other day, I saw a cat very slowly walk across one part of the road... then leisurely sit and get all comfy right smack in the middle of the road. It wasn't until a car went by on the side the cat just left that the cat finally got scared and ran across the rest of the road... and I can tell you that if the car had gone by on the other side instead, one of my neighbors would be minus one cat.

2. Kids have to go outside at some point to live their lives. Cats don't (except snug in a cat carrier to and fro the vet).

3. There are some places out there dangerous enough to kids that parents *don't* let their kids play outside. And since there is a lot more dangers out there to a cat, the same principle applies. If it's a choice between disease, fleas, ticks, becoming roadkill, getting killed by sickos, etc. just so they can run around, pounce things, and lounge... or staying in a nice, safe, clean house where they can *also* (if you set up your house right) run around, pounce things, and lounge... why let the cats outside?

*You* know what's safer, so the animals that don't (and just think, "Ooh, outdoors, shiny!") need you to look after them.

After all, my cat *thinks* he wants to go outside. Then, on the rare occasions he does manage to sneak out on me, he immediately panics and tries running back inside (and generally goes to the wrong door, sigh). Of course, cats being what they are, he generally forgets he didn't enjoy his last excursion and tries sneaking out again... only to be unhappy again if he finally does. An animal wanting to go outside really doesn't mean anything.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I think the thing about cats not knowing what is dangerous is only true for cats that are kept indoors all of the time. Of course, suddenly going outside and seeing cars, etc, really for the first time, is going to produce a different reaction than if they were around them more.

I've had many cats through my life. I've grown up with them, too. All of the cats I've had have lived outside as much as they have inside, and we lived in rather populated areas with all the 'danger'. And yet, never did a cat die to something other than old age. And they also all lived a good ten or so years, longer than people I've known with indoor cats.

Not only that, but they always seemed happier, more energetic...and...well, more cat like when they could go outside and explore.

I completely understand why some people want to keep their cats safe and inside, but the animals are smarter than some like to give them credit for. Maybe I've just been lucky, but hey, that's my experience and its never, ever caused a problem...not even with the people that lived next door.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

1. Kids are more intelligent than cats. Not always greatly more intelligent (I did some dumb stuff as a kid...), but still, animals have no clue what is and isn't dangerous for them.

That's an awfully blanket statement that animals have no clue about what's dangerous and what isn't. Generally, it should be obvious that they often will, for things in their experience. (Ankh-Morpork Guard pretty much says the same thing, BTW)

Specifically, I've had a mother cat hiss at my mother, brother, and me until we stepped away from the car because one of her kittens was in a spot where it'd be run over. (She was using that point as a waystation for moving her litter)

My parents' dog has picked up and carried kittens out of the driveway to make sure they wouldn't be run over; she had never seen anything get run over by a car, but had an appreciation for what might happen. The same dog knows that skunks are bad, and will give them a respectful distance when escorting them away from the house. (That this dog had a habit of playing in the road and once managed to catch the truck she was chasing is possible evidence of a higher power that watches out for fools...and she runs from Mom when Mom comes out with rubber gloves, because that means flea treatment)

Now, both of those examples illustrate the point, which is that if they are completely new to their surroundings, they might be unaware of hazards or dangers. But if they aren't completely new, they'll develop an idea of what's dangerous and what's not. This may mean a period of natural selection, as they learn that there are potential predators about or that traffic is bad.

Brad

 

[Jeysie]

Now, both of those examples illustrate the point, which is that if they are completely new to their surroundings, they might be unaware of hazards or dangers. But if they aren't completely new, they'll develop an idea of what's dangerous and what's not. This may mean a period of natural selection, as they learn that there are potential predators about or that traffic is bad.

And therein lies the problem... what doesn't kill you might make you stronger/wiser... but it has to not kill you first. A cat during their first few excursions might not realize a car, kid, or animal is dangerous at first - and they may live to learn otherwise, and they may not.

I'd rather not take the risk when a well-loved and played-with cat will be perfectly healthy and happy indoors. (I always get compliments from the vet on how healthy my cat is, and all I really do is feed and love him. )

I've lost a kitty that ran away and got hit by a car... and I've known a lot of people who've lost cats to cars, twisted neighbors, and diseases. And even if you escape all that, there's having to deal with flea baths and cleaning dirty kitties. Seems like a unnecessary risk/hassle to take.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I've lost a kitty that ran away and got hit by a car... and I've known a lot of people who've lost cats to cars, twisted neighbors, and diseases. And even if you escape all that, there's having to deal with flea baths and cleaning dirty kitties. Seems like a unnecessary risk/hassle to take.

Again, all of those things apply to kids just as much.

Well, not as much with flea baths.

But as I said, I completely understand why some people prefer their cats to stay inside. In fact, for some cats, its definitely better. But, at the same time, this isn't neccessarily true for ALL cats. Or all pets for that matter. That's really where my sticking point on all of this is, as I've seen cats that love the outdoors and live just fine out there as much as inside for many, many years.