Changeover Poll

[Dannyalcatraz]

EDIT: What did the Hydrans do that was so catastrophic? They sent one of their four fleets, with 20 ships, right into the heart of the Klingon Empire, trying to break through to the Federation. The Klingons sicced about a hundred ships on them. The result was inevitable. The Federation ... curse their cowardly spines! ... refused to enter the war on the excuse that no Hydran ship reached their border. Those chickens! Bawk ... bawk, bawk ... bawk!

Which is why, in our replaying of the Big War (using Federation & Empire as reference), instead of going solo into the heart of the Klingon empire, my Hydrans opted to break through to the Tholians- enemy-of-my-enemy and all that- and we succeeded. We got planets & resources that turned the tide very quickly.

 

[Alzrius]

The decision to change over to 4E, and to *FORCE* everyone else to change (or else), was dreamed up by a few people (who are unknown, and probably not there anymore) at the very top of the echelon of Hasbro, unknown Corporate Executive Officers who saw things only in terms of a Hard World and the Bottom Line.
Same thing with the decision to take back and shut down Dragon and Dungeon Magazine.

This is not something done by the lower echelons of Hasbro. It was not done by the spokespeople of Hasbro.
This was not done by anyone at WOTC. They must do what Hasbro tells them, or truly it is 'else.'

My understanding is that all of these decisions were made by the people at WotC; Hasbro is fairly disinterested in what WotC does so long as they turn a profit, and doesn't give them orders about how exactly to run things, especially given that D&D isn't even WotC's biggest brand.

 

[Zil]

Originally Posted by Edena_of_Neith
The decision to change over to 4E, and to *FORCE* everyone else to change (or else), was dreamed up by a few people (who are unknown, and probably not there anymore) at the very top of the echelon of Hasbro, unknown Corporate Executive Officers who saw things only in terms of a Hard World and the Bottom Line.
Same thing with the decision to take back and shut down Dragon and Dungeon Magazine.

This is not something done by the lower echelons of Hasbro. It was not done by the spokespeople of Hasbro.
This was not done by anyone at WOTC. They must do what Hasbro tells them, or truly it is 'else.'
My understanding is that all of these decisions were made by the people at WotC; Hasbro is fairly disinterested in what WotC does so long as they turn a profit, and doesn't give them orders about how exactly to run things, especially given that D&D isn't even WotC's biggest brand.

My understanding is that all of these decisions were made by the people at WotC; Hasbro is fairly disinterested in what WotC does so long as they turn a profit, and doesn't give them orders about how exactly to run things, especially given that D&D isn't even WotC's biggest brand.

While it's rather clear that the 4E design choices, and the stumbled initial marketing campaign originated within WoTC, it's never been clear to me where the decisions made to step away from the OGL were made. Were those made within WoTC or farther up the Hasbro chain?

But all that said and done, nobody was forcing anyone to do anything. WoTC simply put out a new version of D&D (albeit a version with some radical changes from what has come before). I'm sure they were hoping everyone would go along for the ride to the new version, but no one was forced to switch. About the worse that they can be blamed for is (a) making design choices for the latest version that some people do not like and (b) attacking the previous version (and the OGL) in order to sell the latest version.

 

[Zil]

Play what you like. Don't crap on what other people play. Drink your milk.

WP

... but what if I'm lactose intolerant?

 

[Bagpuss]

Wow, just wow.

1/2 of folks that have tried 4E have gone back, but the same number haven't even bothered to try it. So from this poll, WotC have lost around 2/3 rds of their customers with the change to 4th Ed.

In know this is only ENWorld posters, but still, it is generally believed ENWorld is pretty pro-4E I wonder how this correlates elsewhere.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I just read something I still cannot believe, and I just *read* it, saw it with my own eyes.
It's called Emotiv, and involves games employing a headset that allows the game to be influenced by your brainwaves (ala: Mind Pong, and such a game seems to actually exist.)

Now, this is something right out of the film Forbidden Planet, but this isn't a sci-fi film, it's supposedly going to be a game I can *buy* in stores in a few months.

If that is true, then ... THIS is what D&D must compete with.

Obviously, then, D&D has a hard row to hoe. To make a drastic understatement.

Until, of course, we have Virtual Mind D&D ... (ROLMAQ)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Edena, welcome to Lawnmower Man 3.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Which is why, in our replaying of the Big War (using Federation & Empire as reference), instead of going solo into the heart of the Klingon empire, my Hydrans opted to break through to the Tholians- enemy-of-my-enemy and all that- and we succeeded. We got planets & resources that turned the tide very quickly.

(blinks)

You broke through to the THOLIANS?
That's *twice* as far, for the Expeditionary Fleet to go, as the Federation Border.

Just how did you manage it? You had the Klingon Border Fleet (Hydran), the Klingon Southern Fleet, the Klingon Border Fleet (Tholian), and both the Klingon Home Fleet and their Border Fleet (Federation) if they could intercept you.

And how did you talk the Tholians into helping, once you got there? Even the Federation couldn't convince them to join the war.

-

For anyone interested, the Expeditionary Fleet used the Hellbore Cannon.
How does a Hellbore work? How do the Hydrans work? What would it look like in Star Trek? What would combat look?


Sulu: Sir, the Hydran Dragoon Heavy Cruiser is now at 80,000 kilometers. All their weapons are overloaded. Three Hydran fighters also at 80,000 kilometers, weapons readied.
Captain Kirk: We are at overload range, also. Now is the moment! Fire all weapons!

(The Enterprise unleashes an Alpha Strike ... 2 of it's 4 overloaded photon torpedoes hit, all the overloaded phasers hit, the Dragoon's front shield (Shield 1) goes down, and moderate damage occurs to the Dragoon.)

Sulu: Enemy ship and fighters firing!

(7 Hellbore shots arrive. 4 are from the Dragoon and Overloaded, and 2 of those hit. 3 are Regular shots from the fighters, and 2 of those hit. A vast thermonuclear glow envelops the Enterprise, a cocoon of fusion destruction, imploding onto the ship, the colossal thermonuclear blast heading inward and not outward.
Half of this incoming blast hits the weakest shield of the Enterprise, it's number 4 rear shield, destroys that shield, and causes minor damage to the Enterprise. Half of the remaining blast hits the two next weakest shields, numbers 3 and 5, damaging them. Some of the blast afflicts the front, right front, and left front shields (1, 2, and 6) causing minor damage to them.)

Sulu: Sir, shield 4 destroyed, shields 3 and 5 at 50%.
Spock: Captain, they are holding their phaser fire. They are obviously trying to close, as their phasers are shorter ranged than ours.
Kirk: High Energy Turn. Get us out of here.

(The Enterprise turns. It speeds away, accelerating as it goes. The Hydran Dragoon matches it's acceleration, 70,000 kilometers to the rear of the Enterprise. The Hydran fighters are left behind.)

Sulu: Hydran ship firing Phaser-IIs.

(Minor damage occurs to the Enterprise, as the Phaser-IIs strike at it from 70,000 kilometers, the energy fired through through the downed rear shield (Shield 4))

(A minute later.)

Sulu: Sir, our photons recharged at regular force. All phasers recharged.
Kirk: We could High Energy Turn and fire. A direct hit will finish them. Their Hellbores are not re-readied.
Spock: Captain, they can turn and put their number 2 or 6 shield to us, and still continue to reload their Hellbores. At this range, we cannot inflict enough damage to knock their weapons systems out, unless we succeed in firing through their downed Shield 1.
Kirk: We have to risk it. We cannot take another Hellbore blast with Shield 4 down, and we cannot outrun them.
Spock: Captain, a second High Energy Turn could cripple the Enterprise. The risk is considerable.
Kirk: It is a risk we must take. Sulu, High Speed Turn!

(The Enterprise pulls it's 2nd High Energy Turn, and survives it. But the Hydran was expecting this maneuver, and as the Enterprise flips about, the Dragoon turns, angling Shield 2 towards the Enterprise.)

Kirk: Fire all weapons!

(At 70,000 kilometers, 3 of the 4 photons (regular strength) hit, and the phasers score. The Hydran's number 2 shield disintegrates, and more minor damage is inflicted to the Dragoon.)

Kirk: Rats. Options, Spock?
Spock: Another High Speed Turn is likely to wreck the ship, Captain. We could disable them with Transporter Bombs.
Kirk: When they are in range, make it so, Sulu. Recharge all weapons.
Sulu: Yes sir.

(The Enterprise and the Hydran move towards each other directly now. At 50,000 kilometers, the Enterprise transports it's 3 bombs out to directly in front of the Hydran.
The Hydran, detecting the transporter activity and expecting this action, makes it's own High Energy Turn (it's first), and takes the blast damage on it's number 3 shield. That shield is destroyed, and the Hydran sustains minor damage.)

Sulu: Transporter activity from the Hydran.
Kirk: Brace!

(3 bombs go off in front of the Enterprise, knocking down it's front shield (Shield 1))

Spock: Captain, at this speed we will close with the Hydran before our weapons are recharged. Their phasers are at full.
Kirk: Emergency Deceleration!

(The Enterprise stops dead in it's tracks. The Hydran veers to the right, furiously turning towards the Enterprise, accelerating.)

Kirk: Full reverse!
Sulu: Sir, the Hydran ship is gaining rapidly.
Kirk: What? They had to go out of their way in the turn!
Spock: Captain, their engines were more fully engaged. They had and have the tactical advantage on speed.
Kirk: Can we stay out of their range?
Spock: Negative, Captain. Their Hellbores are already in range. At this distance, they will do little damage. But they will come within primary range within 30 seconds.
Kirk: Two of their front shields are down. Are all weapons readied?
Sulu: Yes, sir.
Spock: Captain, if they fire, we cannot repulse the Hellbores.
Kirk: Yes, but they cannot repulse our fire, either. Their front shields are down.

Sulu: Range to the Hydran Dragoon, 130,000 kilometers.
Kirk: Prepare to fire all weapons.
Sulu: Range ... 120,000 kilometers.
Kirk: Steady, steady ...
Sulu: Range ... 111,000 kilometers!
Spock: All weapons systems, ours and theirs, in primary range in 30,000 kilometers.
Sulu: Range ... 100,000 kilometers!
Kirk: Steady ... steady ...
Everyone Else: What is he waiting for?!
Sulu: Range ... 90,000 kilometers!
Kirk: Steady ... steady ... steady ...
Sulu: 80,000 kilometers!
Kirk: Steady ... steady ... steady ...
Sulu: 70,000 kilometers!
Kirk: Steady ... steady ... steady ... steady ...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

The United Federation of Planets and the Hydran Galactic Kingdom, fortunately, never went to war against each other. : )

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's *twice* as far, for the Expeditionary Fleet to go, as the Federation Border.

Just how did you manage it? You had the Klingon Border Fleet (Hydran), the Klingon Southern Fleet, the Klingon Border Fleet (Tholian), and both the Klingon Home Fleet and their Border Fleet (Federation) if they could intercept you.

There were several feints along the borders to occupy the Klingons, who responded to the incursions with overwhelming force. Incredibly overwhelming, since the invading fleets were missing certain ships, and quickly ran away in seeming defeat. The Klingons didn't press the issue by following into Hydran space- they thought the missing ships were waiting for them, and the retreating invaders were drawing them into a trap.

The missing ships that normally would have been with the invading forces joined up with with a HUGE Hydran invasion fleet.

By the time they realized what had happened, the Hydran-Tholian alliance had cut off a few hexes of the Klingon Empire.

Mop-up of the forces trapped behind the Alliance fleet was swift.

The loss of resources wasn't crippling, in and of itself, but it significantly increased the Alliance's production...and prompted the Feds to join the party.

We never got to finish the campaign- the F&E board was used to depict force deployment and wins & losses, but we played the battles out in SFB. That takes time. We started after coming home from college, and by the time we had to return to school, nothing had been truly decided.

On our side of the map, the Alliance was holding strong, but couldn't make any advances. OTOH, the Feds and Klingons were going at it hammer and tongs, with the Klingons taking the brunt of the losses. (Not only did the Klingons lose territory, resources, ships and face to the Alliance, the Alliance was interdicting trade between the Klingons and the Romulans.)

The Tholian player and I had been talking about how to produce our first joint-tech warships...think about that. But due to the forces of the RW intruding, we were never again able to assemble the full group to play things out.

And how did you talk the Tholians into helping, once you got there? Even the Federation couldn't convince them to join the war.

First, the Hydrans had to cover the bulk of the distance.

Second, we agreed to split the resources (natural and manufactured) from the captured territory 60H/40T...but the Tholians got to annex the captured space fully under Tholian rule.