D&D 5E (2014) Charm Person 5e vs Older

[iserith]

Probably the easiest way to "mind control" adventurers is to just offer them gold and XP to go do a thing the NPC wants.

 

[Dausuul]

The best spell for this is mass suggestion. Despite the name, it has some key differences from the regular suggestion spell, the biggest being duration. The mass version does not require concentration, and the duration starts at 24 hours and scales with slot level up to a full year.

It isn't puppet-style control like dominate person, but for a villain seeking to manipulate via agents, there is much to be said for subtlety. You can even implant conditional suggestions with triggers.

 

[5ekyu]

One houserule I've added to the various charm spells is that you don't automatically know that you were charmed when the spell ends. You make an Int/Arcana check against DC 10+spell level to determine if you realize it. If you fail, you internally justify your actions, and will still be somewhat friendly towards the caster.

My house rule is to allow an end of dpell save to see if you realize you were charmed. But you may have advsntsge or disadvantage depending on if the things done were against charscter trsits, with character traits or neutral.

That means the manipulator is best served with more subtle uses on golks inclined in that direction.

 

[Yaarel]

One way to handle Charm (and keep player agency) is by rewarding the player for roleplaying a Charmed character well. Let the player decide how to do it and where the limits are, and if the job is satisfactory, award Inspiration or even some other kind of reward, like healing, a magic item, or whatever.

Some kind of reward that allows the player to want to play a Charmed character.

 

[5ekyu]

If you got dedicated roleplayers at your table and you secretly tell one of them that his char is dominated by a mob e.g. a succubus without the other pc noticing, then you can have super fun. All the other chars desperately trying to figure out why the charmed char behaves so strange suddenly.

Did this once at my table and it was perfect. I even gave him saving throws from time to time, but the DC (18) was quite high. I did not have to intervene once because he was roleplaying the situation so good.

I agree, that is where " practically" comes into play.
It also varies a lot with the style of game. Much different flavor in Esper, Vampire, mystery etc.

But what you are describing seems more along the lines of suggestion rather than domination.

 

[Gadget]

I would just like to add that there is also the fifth level Geas spell that can perform the long term co-opting of a person's will the the OP seems to want. Dominate Person gives more complete control, but the duration is limited for a "sleeper agent" type scenario.

I would like to point at that, though it was a necessary nerf--for PC magic, to tone down the charm type spells, that is not necessarily the case for NPC/Monster abilities. As long the CR is taken into account for this ability, it is perfectly okay for monsters to have abilities that PCs don't, as they are built with a different purpose and with slightly different rules than PCs. As long as you keep in mind @5ekyu 's wise advice about using it on PC's too early in the level progression, it could be perfectly alright. It could be fine for some obscure ritual (unavailable to PCs) to be used on a captured NPC by the demon cult to turn them into a willing minion, but becomes more tricky to use against PCs. Not to mention several monster abilities that just outright offers long term domination (see aboleth enslave ability).

One of the problems with PC spells in particular is that they have to balanced against using them on PCs in addition to the PCs employing them against monsters. That is one of the reasons spells like the Power Word line are so lackluster for PCs, they are deadly when turned against the party.

 

[Yaarel]

Probably the easiest way to "mind control" adventurers is to just offer them gold and XP to go do a thing the NPC wants.

I dont use xp, and all players level up at the same time. Unequal xp is not a playstyle I care for.

But yeah, something like that, some kind of reward for roleplaying the Charm well.

 

[5ekyu]

I dont use xp, and all players level up at the same time. Unequal xp is not a playstyle I care for.

But yeah, something like that, some kind of reward for roleplaying the Charm well.

Actually, in one of my 3.5 campaigns, the PCs had been marching and Stomping their way up the food chain of a villainous organization and as they approached the city the mastermind was centered in...

The villain through an intermediary setup a rescue and relief mission to a neighboring area in dire straights, had rumors of bandits and monsters on the road and had a third party try to hire the PCs as guards for this worthy cause.

Of course it would take them out from that city for a month or so which was more time for him to get to a point he wanted.

But they chose to stay in it and not get diverted.

Oh well.

But it seemed easier to just buy them off,

 

[Monayuris]

I miss how charm person can last weeks depending on the intelligence of the target.

A first level party can charm an ogre and have a powerful ally UNTIL it wears off and you end up with a deadly and mad foe in their midst.

It’s a fun push your luck mechanism.

As a DM, though, If you want a creature to have a charm effect that lasts longer, just make one. You are not constrained by the rules and you can develop whatever you need.

 

[gyor]

Modify memory could be used for long term, sublte manipulations.