Class choice- what could this party use? Is two defenders one too many?

In reference to the point brought up by Prestigiditalis (above), the effectiveness of 2 defenders kind of depends on the DM style/habit. By that I mean, do your combats usually involve an elite (or solo) and a couple others? Or do you usually have half a dozen enemies?

I was in one game where the party was frequently against 5-8 enemies at a time and having two defenders made a really good "line" that kept the squishy members safe.

But on the reverse side of it, I've been in a game with two defenders where we frequently only fought 3-5 enemies at a time (one of which usually being an elite) and, yes, there would often be an issue of conflicting marks since there were fewer creatures to mark. Thus, someone either never bothered to mark or just had their mark overwritten by the other every other round...


But in general between leader vs defender vs controller, a) i think 3 leaders would be too much, b) it sounds like you'd prefer a fighter/defender over a invoker/controller, c) 2 defenders isn't the end of the world, just don't go after the same mark as the other defender... -- so, go with the fighter/defender


caveat: are the rangers melee or ranged builds? because if they are melee, well, you don't really have any good range classes here, so be sure you all have some sort of ranged backup weapon (bows/arrows/javelins/throwing shield/etc) for those times you need to hit something and not be up close about it (due to auras or terrain or hazards, etc).
 

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If your party has two defenders, you can pull the "Two Mark Tango!"

That's where you mark one bad guy, the other defender marks the other, and then you make it so that each of your marks has strong reasons to go after the wrong defender. Nothing like a player-inflicted devil's choice- we DMs get to smack those on players all the time!
 

The few times I've played in a group with more than one defender, there has been some loss of effectiveness due to conflicting marks.

I never thought I would be saying this, but increasingly I like the idea of a striker-heavy party. There is a huge difference between doing 12 damage when you hit and doing 24, not just on paper but on the battlemap.
Hilariously, mid-level Battleminds work great with Fighters.

Step 1: Fighter marks enemy
Step 2: Enemy attacks Fighter.
Step 3: Battlemind uses Aug 2 Lightning Rush to switch the target to himself and attack.
Step 4: Now the Fighter Combat Challenge attacks for mark violation, hopefully with fun riders.
Step 5: Oh yeah, that original attack goes off.

-O
 

If your party has two defenders, you can pull the "Two Mark Tango!"

That's where you mark one bad guy, the other defender marks the other, and then you make it so that each of your marks has strong reasons to go after the wrong defender. Nothing like a player-inflicted devil's choice- we DMs get to smack those on players all the time!


2x shielding swordmage is especially brutal with this, since both can use things like frigid blade and luring strike to keep the wrong mark adjacent. It essentially shuts down (at least) two enemies.
 

Shielding Swordmage

I'm currently running a hybrid swordmage/infernal warlock in the home campaign I'm playing in. It's fun but you have a hard time dealing with multiple foes; once you have burned your immediate reaction there is no reason why a foe would worry about your mark, other than the -2. I try to use my powers in concert with the controllers to lockdown people.
 

I'm currently running a hybrid swordmage/infernal warlock in the home campaign I'm playing in. It's fun but you have a hard time dealing with multiple foes; once you have burned your immediate reaction there is no reason why a foe would worry about your mark, other than the -2. I try to use my powers in concert with the controllers to lockdown people.

It's the down side to defenders. If you have one big bad and a bunch of minions, a defender rules. If you have 5 or 6 soldiers and brutes, the mere fact that one of them has to attack the defender is just not that big of a deal -- the odds are that one of them would have anyway. A fighter can do better in this situation by at least preventing shifts with Combat Superiority, but the others have real problems.
 

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