Clerics - What do you LIKE and DISLIKE?

[Elf Witch]

Combat is so common in adventures, I'd be surprised if most adventuring clerics didn't end up worshipping a deity of war if the rules were changed that way.

I really think this depends on the campaign and the group. My group are really into role playing and they have often talked about how much they hate the generic flavor of clerics. One of the players reallly wanted to play a healer with a code against killing and felt the cleric as written was really to narrow for that she ended up using the class healer from the miniture hnadbook.

 

[DragonLancer]

Dislikes: Turning. Its not intuitive enough. I'd rather a system more like it used to be in prior editions.

 

[Klaus]

I'll say what I'd change:
- Reduce armor to light and medium only.
- Change Turn Undead to be either an opposed roll (like a Will save or something) or use the Complete Divine variant (1d6/level burst).
- Increase skill points to 4+Int

 

[shilsen]

I'll say what I'd change:
- Reduce armor to light and medium only.
- Change Turn Undead to be either an opposed roll (like a Will save or something) or use the Complete Divine variant (1d6/level burst).
- Increase skill points to 4+Int

Dammit, Klaus - stop peeking in my house rules!

 

[Morte]

Likes:

- Good solo or in a small party. They're multispeed, they can melee easy stuff all day (unlike a mage), or go all-out for a single fight by casting spells (unlike a fighter). And they have some social/diplomatic ability.
- Proficient with heavy armour (which requires extensive training) for no particular reason.

Dislikes:

- You have to play a god-botherer because the party needs a healer, whether you wanted to be devout or not.
- GMs think it's fun to take your holy symbol.
- Non-proficient with swords (easier than morningstars) for no particular reason.
- Favoured weapon rules + wrong sort of GM = punishment for non-min/maxers.
- What in heck does wisdom (general common sense etc) have to do with gods granting you spells? Wouldn't charisma be a better fit?

 

[el-remmen]

I also gave them different class skills and different weapons and armor.

Ditto.

 

[Greg K]

They can also cast all the same spells which does not make sense to me. This is one thing that I preferred in AD&D spheres which meant that some spells your cleric would never get access to. I also don't think that ever cleric should have access to the same weapons I just don't see a cleric of a god of nature fighting with the same weapon as say a cleric of a god of war.

I also think that clerics should cast all their spells like sorcerers instead of having them set in stone. It would seem to be that the gods would not say "sorry I know you really need this spell but since you didn't ask for it this morning you are just going to have to let evil win"

I agree. For my campaign, I went throught the clerics spell list and chose those spells that I thought would fit clerics of any deity in my campaign- these spells would be the only spells shared by all clerics. To those common spells each cleric adds their domain spells (based upon deity) to the list of spells. Finally, each deity has certain aligned deities which grant some additional low level spells (third level and lower) to the clerics list.



My list of shared spells from the PHB are:

0: Detect Magic, Guidance, Read Magic, Resistance
First: Bane, Bless, Command
Second: Augury, Enthrall
Third: Bestow Curse, Prayer, Remove Curse
Fourth: Discern Lies, Divination, Imbue w/ Spell Ability, Mark of Justice, Planar Ally (Lesser), Spell Immunity
Fifth: Atonement, Break Enchantment, Commune, Legend Lore
Sixth: Geas/Quest, Planar Ally,
Seven: Contact Other Plane
Eight: Planar Ally (Greater)
Ninth: Miracle

 

[DethStryke]

Alot of what has been said is true:

Dislikes:
-Turning is wonky and very unbalanced at higher levels. Unless you happen upon a nest(!?) of Liches.
-Domains are character flavor like salt sprinkled on top of a meal; much more an afterthought than anything ground breaking.
-Uber-wide range of spells no matter what your deity (or lack thereof depending), which illustrates a clear power jump over wizards.
-A little bit of multi-class action (say, one level of fighter with a human) can easily blow things out of proportion.
-Suspect dogma for each diety. Few players are inclined to delve into the workings and theology of their character's beliefs, though this is more a working of people than the class structure. Still, When was the last time your cleric tried to convert NPCs? What benefit was gained from doing this, other than a warm fuzzy for role-playing well?

Likes:
-Spontaneous Casting. This is just a flat out great idea. In my opinon, this is unfortunately what makes having the uber-wide range of spells wonky though.
-While the sheer number of available spells still grates, the fact that many of them are defensive / team-oriented soothes that irritation a bit.
-Able to step up to the front rank if needed, take the hits and make the heals necessary to keep the group alive.
-Even with a few simple limitations (only spells & domains from PHB), you still have a very dynamic character.

I did like the way sphere's handled available spell choices. It doesn't always make sense that a god of Death would allow their clerics, who supposedly represent them on the Prime Material Plane, the power to heal someone.

I would suggest using a sphere concept for their initial available spells based on Diety / belief. Then, just like spell research grants them to you, additional divine spells may be learned from other casters, divine intervention, found scrolls/tomes, etc. Once they learn the spell, they then have it available to them.... unlocked it, so to speak. Perhaps some deities will punish those who share their knowledge with clerics of other deities that are not like-minded...

 

[Victim]

Likes:
Spontaneous casting of cures.

Versatility. Clerics are good at healing and buffing but that's not all they can do. After helping everyone else do things, there's still a solid core of stuff they can do themselves. That's support done right, IMHO.

Domains allow for some customizeability without making the cleric 100 radically different classes.

Dislikes:

Turn Undead.

Automatic knowledge of supplement spells. Especially problematic since it allows instant access to spells that are perhaps too good, which can really compound the problem.

 

[KB9JMQ]

I like everything except the turning mechanic.
Please just one simple opposed roll and no charts.