Confessions of a 4E Detractor

[Khairn]

Just a few rambling thoughts.

For me ... 4E was not the reason behind my anger that bubbled over from time to time. It was the cancellation of the mags, the 3E dump-fest that WotC started as they pushed 4E, the sacking of FR and the over-all poor way that I believed the 4E launch was handled, which really got my ire boiling. As a long time gamer, and rabid game-aholic I felt that I should be excited about 4E. But I wasn't. I realized that my negative view of 4E grew as an off-shoot of those other problems, not with the system itself.

Since then I've play-tested the new edition a number of times and even joined a regular gaming group. I've come to appreciate those aspects of 4E that I find enjoyable, and understand those aspects that make me scratch my head in confusion. I know the new edition is not designed with my style of play in mind, and I have no problem with it.

I have found it interesting that the change in the market has had a significant impact on my internet habits. I very rarely drop by Wizards anymore, and even my time here on EN has gone down dramatically. The "feel" of the community has really changed and not in a way that I enjoy, so I find myself spending alot more time on other sites, which I still feel strange about.

Overall I think there has been a real change in the fan-base and a change that I think will continue for many years. Its a shame really.

Oh well ... enough belly-button gazing ... its time to get back to work.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

As a long time gamer, I felt that I should be excited about 4E. But I wasn't. I realized that my negative view of 4E grew as an off-shoot of those other problems, not with the system itself.

I know the new edition is not designed with my style of play in mind, and I have no problem with it.

I have found it interesting that the change in the market has had a significant impact on my internet habits. I very rarely drop by Wizards anymore, and even my time here on EN has gone down dramatically. The "feel" of the community has really changed and not in a way that I enjoy, so I find myself spending alot more time on other sites, which I still feel strange about.

Overall I think there has been a real change in the fan-base and a change that I think will continue for many years. Its a shame really.

I snipped out the parts that didn't apply to me, but the rest of that is spot on.

Its time to get back to work.

Definitely not this.

 

[the Jester]

I made myself sick over it, with all of that misdirected negative energy.

Psst! It's called necrotic now!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I have to say my experience with 4Ed is pretty much mirrored in CleverNickName's 2-4th paragraphs above.

I was never one to feel betrayed by my unmet expectations- after all, there will eventually be a 5Ed, 6Ed...and god willing, D&D will remain in print long after I die.

(What really got me hot was people telling me my perspectives were somehow invalid.)

In the final analysis, I concluded that 4Ed isn't the game for me. I'll never run it. Ever.

However, like many other games I'll never run- GURPS, CoC, etc.- I'm perfectly willing to play the game.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Since we're confessing stuff in this thread, I gotta admit, every time I see you post, I turn into a very, very, bitter man. You're a constant reminder that I never got my Mysteries of the Moonsea web enhancement on Phlan. I know you turned it in, and even wrote more than you had to. But for some reason, they never posted it.

It just makes me want to grab and shake you while yelling "What did you write?!!! Tell me everything!!!!!"

Yeah, they paid me on it and that was the last I heard of it. You want a quick rundown?

There was an adventure that involved the pyramid from Phlan and a sarrukh that was there and up to no good.

There was a writeup of Phlan, which basically made liberal use of material from the 2E Moonsea supplement. I set it up so that there was still stuff to do in Phlan - still ruined areas that had yet to be explored, still monsters occasionally crawling out of them, etc. The thing was about 17,000 words long, and not only did it never get posted to the web, but I was also never told of any level of dissatisfaction with it. It simply disappeared. That made me a sad panda, but I got over it because such things tend to happen in this business.

 

[cougent]

Of course, back in 1981 when I first started playing, there was Dungeons and Dragons and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and we didn't seem this kind of fighting over what was D&D. But 1) we had to insult each other face to face, not over the anonymity of the internet and 2) the hobby was very different at the time in terms of scope and content, and 3) nobody played D&D by the book anyway, so we didn't really EXPECT there to be one true D&D.

I started in 1981 also and remember the 2 games also, but as the ignorant 18 year old that I was back then it really didn't matter. We played everything we could get our hands on and in any order (B2, A1, C4, X1) and just "made it work". We theoretically knew it was 2 different games, but adrenaline rush, caffeine and pizza fed, college freedom, teenage angst just didn't give a flip.

Anyways, it's all a matter of perspective. What works for some, doesn't work for others thus the reason there's a bajillion other rpgs out there.

I certainly don't fault WotC for going the route they did, or the GSL, or anything else in particular. It's just a game. The hobby will survive and so on.

I thought this was good, so QFT.

Overall I think there has been a real change in the fan-base and a change that I think will continue for many years. Its a shame really.

I agree here as well, but I don't fault WotC either (anymore). It just sucks to realize that you are no longer part of the "target demographic" and nobody ever likes it. At 45 though I am starting to get used to it on multiple fronts.

 

[Khairn]

I agree here as well, but I don't fault WotC either (anymore). It just sucks to realize that you are no longer part of the "target demographic" and nobody ever likes it. At 45 though I am starting to get used to it on multiple fronts.

To an extent I do fault WotC for part of the change we are seeing. I believe that building up 4E by casting down 3E, was a clear part of their marketing strategy. That caused a lot of anger in the minds of those players who still enjoyed 3E, and led to much of the division we are seeing today. We are ultimately responsible for our own actions, but the initial rules were set by WotC.

Only 45? Hell ... you're a youngster. That feeling gets worse the longer you play.

 

[Mercule]

I believe most people would just gravitate somewhere else to rant for that week. It would either be WotC boards, Candlekeep, etc. There are plenty of places for people to talk, and complain, that most people probably wouldn't skip a beat.

Strangely, I've had much more rational discussions about 4e on "gloves off" sites than here. We vented. We called each other morons. We got over it.

In the end, I was able to show up back here and make nice with in a few threads.

Of course, I also prefer tantric meditation to yoga, so YMMV.

 

[Agamon]

No worries, mate. You weren't one of the worst, by any stretch

Tell me about it. I can no longer see the posts of a few posters here, the OP not included or even considered.

 

[Scribble]

To an extent I do fault WotC for part of the change we are seeing. I believe that building up 4E by casting down 3E, was a clear part of their marketing strategy. That caused a lot of anger in the minds of those players who still enjoyed 3E, and led to much of the division we are seeing today.

I think it was a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't... I never saw anything that I felt was "bashing" 3e in anyway. I think what they were, at least trying to do, was justify why they felt the changes needed making, as opposed to them being seen as change for changes sake, orjust a way to get more of our money. (Although those accusations still happened.)