Conjuration Rule I'm imagining?

[lukelightning]

I blame the SR rules. They really need to be overhauled in a drastic way. You wan't something that is resistant to magic? Give it a bonus to saves vs. magic. You want something resistant to fireball? Give it fire resistance. Want it to be immune to most blasting spells? Give it a blanket "energy resistance."

Make SR work like DR; it subtracts from damaging effects, perhaps with ways to overcome it, i.e. devils have something like "SR 15/good" (or holy or whatever).

This has the advantage of doing away with the weird and abusable "conjuration bypasses SR" and the (in my opinion) stupid logic that "conjured" fire is different from "evoked" fire. It also keeps you from having to remember which spells are subject to SR and which aren't; if SR is like DR it only affects damaging spells; everything else uses the save mechanics, and for the "half effect" spells you can give these creatures an evasion-like ability to negate spells if they save.

 

[Henry]

Make SR work like DR; it subtracts from damaging effects, perhaps with ways to overcome it, i.e. devils have something like "SR 15/good" (or holy or whatever).

This has the advantage of doing away with the weird and abusable "conjuration bypasses SR" and the (in my opinion) stupid logic that "conjured" fire is different from "evoked" fire.

I could live with that.

 

[Arravis]

Make SR work like DR; it subtracts from damaging effects, perhaps with ways to overcome it, i.e. devils have something like "SR 15/good" (or holy or whatever).

The issue is spells like Domination, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, Charm Monster, Suggestion, etc. They probably don't feel comfortable giving so many creatures a blanket immunity to those spells (as per undead), but they don't want those spells to end the encounter after one casting. I suppose an increase in saves would help... but some of the non-damaging spells don't have a save, like Maze, Forcecage, Otto's Irresistable Dance, etc. Perhaps they also need to drop those spells, but then you're looking at a fairly major overhaul.

P.S.: I really, really, really hate the whole "conjured" fire is different from "evoked" magic, etc. It's is a ham-fisted and simple-minded way of dealing with fools who don't have the imagination to play conjurers correctly. Conjurers are amazingly powerful and probably the most versatile of the schools, but it requires actual research and thinking about the creatures you summon.

 

[Marshall]

P.S.: I really, really, really hate the whole "conjured" fire is different from "evoked" magic, etc. It's is a ham-fisted and simple-minded way of dealing with fools who don't have the imagination to play conjurers correctly. Conjurers are amazingly powerful and probably the most versatile of the schools, but it requires actual research and thinking about the creatures you summon.

Or its just a way for the designers to not have to actually think about the Summon X lists.
Talk about a series of spells desperately in need of a re-write....

 

[lukelightning]

The issue is spells like Domination, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, Charm Monster, Suggestion, etc. They probably don't feel comfortable giving so many creatures a blanket immunity to those spells (as per undead), but they don't want those spells to end the encounter after one casting.

All of these effects have saving throws, so give them a bonus to save vs. spells; after all, that's what saves are for. If you combine my "SR is like DR" idea with a revised spell descriptor system you could say things like "Marilith demons have SR 15/good and a +4 save to spells, as well as immunity to spells of the charm and compulsion descriptor). So your wizard with some new "holy magic" feat that ads the "good" descriptor to spells can cast a fireball that hurts the marilith.

Spells like power word kill that have so saves have other mechanics to limit them (in this case a HP limit); you'd have to figure out some way that the SR would "boost" the creatures hit points for purposes of this spell (perhaps SRx2?). These types of spells are relativley rare.

Things like enervation, with no save and no direct damage effect, are more problematic. Since many of these things are rays, perhaps giving a + whatever AC bonus vs the ray?

I'll admit I this may not be the best solution but I think it is a good start.