Converting Epic Level Beings

[Shade]

Heh...it's still really hard to tell where he fits in. Maybe we should just peg him at CR 25 like Bahamut and Tiamat have in their 3E non-deity versions and work from there.

Thoughts?

 

[Mortis]

CR 25 looks like a good place to start.

I did look at Mystara's dragon ruler conversions (1, 2, 3, 4) for inspiration but they are a little more powerful.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

I'd say both Bahamut and Tiamat are under-CRed at 25.

Anyhoo, to start Gru off, let's look at the HD and ability scores of his contemporaries.

Bahamut
53 HD
Str 53, Dex 10, Con 39, Int 35, Wis 36, Cha 35

Tiamat
49 HD
Str 49, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 28, Wis 25, Cha 28

Great Wyrm Iron Dragon
40 HD
Str 47, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 30

Great Wyrm Gold Dragon
41 HD
Str 47, Dex 10, Con 33, Int 32, Wis 33, Cha 32

Great Wyrm Red Dragon
40 HD
Str 45, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 26

So it looks like Bahamut is +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 mental stats over the toughest great wyrm of his grouping.

Tiamat is +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, -2 Wis, +2 Cha over the toughest great wyrm of her grouping.

So for Gru, we could do something similar, perhaps +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha over the great wyrm iron dragon, giving him scores of Str 51, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 32, Wis 33, Cha 32.

I'd set his HD no lower than 46.

Thoughts?

 

[Mortis]

So for Gru, we could do something similar, perhaps +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha over the great wyrm iron dragon, giving him scores of Str 51, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 32, Wis 33, Cha 32.

Looks good to me

I'd set his HD no lower than 46.

48 feels right.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

Starting based on those HD and ability scores...

Gruaghlothor, the Supreme Dragon
Colossal Dragon (Fire)
Hit Dice: 48d12+576 (888 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)
AC: x (-8 size, +x natural), touch x, flat-footed x
Base Attack/Grapple: +48/+84
Attack: Bite +60 melee (4d8+20)
Full Attack: Bite +60 melee (4d8+20) and 2 claws +55 melee (4d6+10) and 2 wings +55 melee (2d8+10) and tail slap +55 melee (4d6+30)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: Breath weapons, crush 4d8+30, frightful presence, spells, spell-like abilities, tail sweep 2d8+30
Special Qualities: Alternate form, blindsense X ft., damage reduction 15/chaotic and epic(?), darkvision X ft., immunity to fire, paralysis, and sleep, keen senses, spell resistance X, vulnerabilitiy to cold
Saves: Fort +38, Ref +26, Will +37
Abilities: Str 51, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 32, Wis 33, Cha 32
Skills: 17 at 51 ranks
Feats: 17
Environment: Underground
Organization: x
Challenge Rating: 25?
Treasure: x
Alignment: Always lawful neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: -

Alternate Form (Su): Gruaghlothor can assume any animal or humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action three times per day. Gruaghlothor can remain in his animal or humanoid form until he chooses to assume a new one or return to his natural form.

Flesh to Iron (Sp): Gruaghlothor can use this ability twice per day. It is similar to a flesh to stone spell, except that the victim is turned into an iron statue rather than stone. As an iron object, it is vulnerable to rust attacks, such as that of a rust monster or a rusting grasp spell. The condition can be reversed by stone to flesh and similar effects. This is the equivalent of a 7th-level spell.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—heat metal; 3/day—detect thoughts, stone shape, transmute rock to mud, wall of iron. Caster level 20th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

 

[Mortis]

Am I just being nasty if I suggest a Flesh to Iron breath weapon.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

Am I just being nasty if I suggest a Flesh to Iron breath weapon.

Yes.

Speaking of which...

Gruaghlothor has three breath weapons, each usable twice a day: a cloud of sleep gas 60' long, 50' wide, and 40' high; a cone of superheated sparks 100' long, 5' wide at the dragon's mouth, and 40' wide at the end, doing 24d12 +24 hp damage; or a bolt of solid stone 30' long and 5' wide, fired out to a 120' from the dragon's mouth, doing 24d12 + 24 hp damage. Creatures caught in the gas must save vs. breath weapon or fall asleep regardless of hit dice. Creatures caught in either the spark cone or in the path of the stone bolt are allowed a save vs. breath weapon for half damage.

So basically he's got the breath weapons of an iron dragon and one unique one. Here's the iron's...

Breath Weapon (Su): An iron dragon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of superheated sparks (dealing half electricity and half fire damage), and a cone of sleep gas. Creatures within a cone of sleep gas must succeed on a Will save or fall asleep, regardless of HD, for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the dragon.

The stone bolt does the same damage as the superheated sparks. Should it just be a line of bludgeoning damage?

 

[Mortis]

Yes.

So the secondary rusting breath wepon is also out

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

So the secondary rusting breath wepon is also out

Most likely.

It might be fun to craft a new Uberdragon sometime, maybe by poll, where we could go nutty with breath weapons.

 

[Shade]

Reviving this thread as well with BOZ's blessing.