Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

Hmmm, I didn't see that in the limited text we had. Where is it?

Well if you could simply "whack him" and be done with it, they wouldn't have needed to bother imprisoning Ythog-Nthlei would they.

A lot of the stuff I suggested is basically made up from scratch, but the flavour text basically says he's some kind of Lovecraftian Horror and so we need to give The Dark King abilities that fit.

Anyhow, checking the source material again I couldn't find any explicit mention of billions of years, but it does specify Ythog-Nthlei is a prehuman "Elder God" and implies he has a nonstandard relationship with time.

The strongest indication of Ythog-Nthlei's unbelievable age it an inscription on an obelisk that says "During the ninth rotation of our galactic cluster in this the 34321st year of our Master’s reign, we, the remaining children of the Great Lord Ythog-Nthlei do hereby register and sanctify this, our Holy Base".

That statement uses rotations of a galactic cluster to count time! Galaxies move about on timescales of billions of years. Moreover, the sentence structure suggests the "galactic cluster rotation" is less than a "year of our Master's reign", suggesting an incomprehensibly long period of time.

For example, it takes our sun takes 200-250 million years to orbit around the centre of the Milky Way galaxy, a period called a "cosmic year", so nine rotations is about 1.8-2.25 billion years.

Even if the "Master's Years" are the same as terrestrial years (which'd be odd for a creature from elsewhere), it's at least 35 millenia old.

Here's some relevant passages from the adventure:

From the diary of a doomed cleric:

“We have been attacked by an evil beyond description. It is the Elder gods, the dark ones who eat time! Only in the last few hours have I realized what is truly happening to us. Years ago this area was found to have incredibly high mana, the power on which all magic feeds. To take advantage of this natural wonder, my ancestors built this temple on top of the mana source. How were they to know that they were not the first? How were they to know that beneath our stone corridors there resides another complex, built by darkly evil inhumans in millenia past. The earthquakes must have awakened them, and now they rise again in their attempt to conquer the world for their evil lords! How are we to—Wait, a tremendous crash in the oracle chamber! Voices, too, I think. I must investigate.”​

Writings on an Onyx Pillar

“During the ninth rotation of our galactic cluster in this the 34321st year of our Master’s reign, we, the remaining children of the Great Lord Ythog-Nthlei do hereby register and sanctify this, our Holy Base. From these divine depths we shall build and grow until we have enough strength to release our Father, Zoth Ommog, from his imprisonment beyond the curtain of time.”​

A holographic warning

“We have at last imprisoned the Dark King, Ythog-Nthlei, here beneath his very base. The process cost more than we could have believed in time and lives. For over 200 years our brotherhood of magicians has struggled to prevent these sons of the old ones from releasing their horrible sires. Now only a few of us remain, but the task is complete. This image is a warning. Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to enter the chamber beyond this door. Any transgression into the area will release the King from his bondage, and will surely spell your doom.”​

The Eldritch Tetrahedron

This area served as a communications link between the members of the base crew and their leaders. Through psychic stimulation, the device can be activated, as displayed by the increased internal luminance when the party studies the pyramid. The relic was also used as an interdimensional portal, which transported the inhuman creatures’ brethren across space and time to assist them in their unholy cause.​

 

[freyar]

Well, I haven't seen that material before (good stuff!), but it reads to me vaguely enough as if it's saying the ninth rotation happens to be during the 34321st year, not that there are 9+ galactic rotations each year. But anyway, it's still a lot of years.

Nonetheless, I think that we can go with standard Rejuvenation and use the 2nd paragraph as flavor text. As for Beyond Nature and Beyond Time and Space, are you willing to negotiate on them? That last quote seems to imply that the dimensional powers are related to the tetrahedron, not Ythog-Nthlei.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I haven't seen that material before (good stuff!), but it reads to me vaguely enough as if it's saying the ninth rotation happens to be during the 34321st year, not that there are 9+ galactic rotations each year. But anyway, it's still a lot of years.

Well the salient point is that a "galactic rotation" is (literally) astronomically longer than a terrestrial year, and if it happens during the 34321st year it must, perforce, be shorter than said year.

Nonetheless, I think that we can go with standard Rejuvenation and use the 2nd paragraph as flavor text.

Well I prefer the non-standard Beyond Death.

As for Beyond Nature and Beyond Time and Space, are you willing to negotiate on them? That last quote seems to imply that the dimensional powers are related to the tetrahedron, not Ythog-Nthlei.

What did you have in mind?

I think we need a "theme" for what Ythog-Nthlei's powers are that doesn't contradict the original flavour text, what little there is.

So far I've proposed a bunch of "Immortal Elder One From Beyond Space" abilities.

Apart from that, I suppose we could give him abilities to command certain kinds of evil creatures as he's a "Dark King". Probably limit it to the creatures affected by the suggested "unholy aura" ability (evil outsiders, aberrations and undead). Either model it as a dominate/charm ability or have it able to turn/rebuke such creatures like a cleric.

 

[freyar]

I didn't phrase it quite precisely enough. It says "during the ninth rotation" and "in this the 34321st year," not necessarily that the ninth rotation is entirely included in the one year. In other words, the galactic rotation that is happening in the 34321st year is the 9th one, not that the 9th one is entirely included in that one year. At least, I think it's vague enough to be read either way.

Nookie, care to break the tie on the Rejuvenation vs Beyond Death (which is the same thing but with flavor text included )?

The Elder Evil theme is fine with me. I just think we could simplify the abilities a bit to make it easier to run. Like replacing a lot of the details about seeing into adjacent planes and neglecting blink and displacement penalties by a continuous true seeing effect.

 

[Cleon]

I didn't phrase it quite precisely enough. It says "during the ninth rotation" and "in this the 34321st year," not necessarily that the ninth rotation is entirely included in the one year. In other words, the galactic rotation that is happening in the 34321st year is the 9th one, not that the 9th one is entirely included in that one year. At least, I think it's vague enough to be read either way.

Nookie, care to break the tie on the Rejuvenation vs Beyond Death (which is the same thing but with flavor text included )?

The Elder Evil theme is fine with me. I just think we could simplify the abilities a bit to make it easier to run. Like replacing a lot of the details about seeing into adjacent planes and neglecting blink and displacement penalties by a continuous true seeing effect.

A true seeing spell does not negate blink penalties or provide most of the "seeing into adjacent planes" abilities. It only allows seeing into the Ethereal Plane.

 

[Nookie]

Flavor is always welcomes IMO. makes abilities more interesting.

 

[Cleon]

Flavor is always welcomes IMO. makes abilities more interesting.

So what would that be a vote for?

 

[Nookie]

This one It has more flavah even though its rejuvination. Though i imagine the flavor can just be put in the monsters description. But seeing as how it relivant to this ability im ok with puting it there too.

Beyond Death (Ex): Ythog-Nthlei can not be killed. If brought to -10 hit points, his body melts away, leaving nothing but an unspeakable stain, but Ythog-Nthlei will reappear at some later time or on some other plane without suffering any penalties for having died. He reappears even if his body and spirit are annihilated. The time-delay and distance of Ythog-Nthlei's reappearance after death is at the DM's discretion, but are usually considerable (e.g. 1001 years later on the spot he died, or immediately on the lowermost layer of the Abyss).

Ythog-Nthlei's cult claim he is billions of years old, older even than the multiverse (impossible though that be). One infamous poet wrote that "even death can die" over Ythog-Nthlei's eldritch lifespan, granting him his peculiar immortality. More rational scholars theorize that Ythog-Nthlei lives simultaneously in many bodies, and all have to be killed simultaneously in order to kill him. The wildest theory among sages is that Ythog-Nthlei has para-chronological immortality and lives simultaneously at many different times as well as places.

 

[Cleon]

This one It has more flavah even though its rejuvination. Though i imagine the flavor can just be put in the monsters description. But seeing as how it relivant to this ability im ok with puting it there too.

Beyond Death (Ex): Ythog-Nthlei can not be killed. If brought to -10 hit points, his body melts away, leaving nothing but an unspeakable stain, but Ythog-Nthlei will reappear at some later time or on some other plane without suffering any penalties for having died. He reappears even if his body and spirit are annihilated. The time-delay and distance of Ythog-Nthlei's reappearance after death is at the DM's discretion, but are usually considerable (e.g. 1001 years later on the spot he died, or immediately on the lowermost layer of the Abyss).

Ythog-Nthlei's cult claim he is billions of years old, older even than the multiverse (impossible though that be). One infamous poet wrote that "even death can die" over Ythog-Nthlei's eldritch lifespan, granting him his peculiar immortality. More rational scholars theorize that Ythog-Nthlei lives simultaneously in many bodies, and all have to be killed simultaneously in order to kill him. The wildest theory among sages is that Ythog-Nthlei has para-chronological immortality and lives simultaneously at many different times as well as places.

So what about the other SQs?

 

[Nookie]

I like them as well, They thematicaly fit even if he doesnt origonaly have them. They did that with allo of unique critters when they swapped them to later editions so it's fine with me.