Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

[freyar]

I'd be happy with allowing the Push in place of any unarmed strike. That sounds good!

Your rewording for Prone Fighting is good, too.

Ready for Spells, or is there another SA to add?

 

[Cleon]

I'd be happy with allowing the Push in place of any unarmed strike. That sounds good!

Your rewording for Prone Fighting is good, too.

Ready for Spells, or is there another SA to add?

I don't think we're ready for the spells yet.

Let's see, we've agreed on the Acrobatics and Prone Fighting, so I can add those to the Keeper.

Updating The Keeper of the Key Working Draft.

Not sure Concentrated Push is there yet.

If I interpret our current stance correctly, how about this:

Concentrated Push (Su): When the Keeper of the Keys uses unarmed strike, it can use one of its unarmed attacks to make a special touch attack that does not provoke an attack of opportunity (it can use any remaining attacks to make normal unarmed strike attacks). If the touch attack hits, it does no damage and the Keeper and target make opposed Strength checks., The Keeper gets a +4 bonus to the Strength contest. In addition, the Keeper and the defender add a +4 bonus for each size category they are larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for each size category they are smaller than Medium. If the Keeper wins the opposed check, the defender moves back 5 feet plus an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which the Keeper's check result is greater than the defender's. If the Keeper loses the opposed check by 5 points or more, it is pushed 5 feet straight backwards. If that space is occupied, it fall prone.​

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The Keeper may remain in place or move with the defender, but can't exceed its normal movement limit. The defender and Keeper provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures if moved, but do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other.​

I did briefly wonder whether we should shift approach and make it much meatier, and have it become a damaging ability that hurls the target across the battlefield as if they were an unfortunate goon in a Steven Seagal movie.

Something that would justify it burning a standard action.

We've also got to do Incapacitator, which is basically a "Nerve Pinching Joint Twist" unarmed attack that paralyzes a limb or digit for 24 days hours. It also does the damage of the unarmed strike!

Lock​

 Incapacitator: By gripping the opponent and twisting the joints, the character can render one finger, arm, or leg useless for 24 hours and cause normal damage. The effect of incapacitating a limb are explained under the wu jen withering palm spell. A successful to hit roll must be made and the victim is allowed a saving throw vs. paralyzation. If the saving throw is failed, the appropriate limb is rendered useless. If the saving throw is made, the attack fails. An unsuccessful attack (either a failed to hit or a successful saving throw) has no effect on the attacker other than the waste of an attack and the lack of damage done. This maneuver is particularly useful to prevent opponents from escaping or making attacks.​

I recall we've done similar special attacks for other monsters.

Wasn't there one that turned one of its target's arms or legs into jelly or stole one of its limb bones?

 

[freyar]

The Concentrated Push as is is ok. Did you want the "if that space is occupied, it falls prone" to apply to the defender as well? Right now, it looks like it only applies to the Keeper.

To make it a bit more appealing, we could add a bit where, if the defender hits an object, they take damage as if they fell the distance pushed. Or 1d6 hp damage per 10 feet, like the Snatch feat.

I think you're right abot the Incapacitator, but I can't remember where. Did you have any ideas?

 

[Cleon]

The Concentrated Push as is is ok. Did you want the "if that space is occupied, it falls prone" to apply to the defender as well? Right now, it looks like it only applies to the Keeper.

So change that last sentence to "If the defender or Keeper is pushed into an occupied they fall prone" perhaps?

To make it a bit more appealing, we could add a bit where, if the defender hits an object, they take damage as if they fell the distance pushed. Or 1d6 hp damage per 10 feet, like the Snatch feat.

Sure, I'm game. Just copy the wording from Snatch? That doesn't require the defender hit anything though.

How about "A pushed creature takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If the creature is pushed over a precipice, it takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater."

I think you're right abot the Incapacitator, but I can't remember where. Did you have any ideas?

I'll probably have to do a lot of rummaging to discover what the monster with that special attack was.

Will have a look, but won't make any promises.

Also noticed a "24 days" typo that should be "24 hours" in my previous post.

 

[Cleon]

I'll probably have to do a lot of rummaging to discover what the monster with that special attack was.

Will have a look, but won't make any promises.

Found it!

I was thinking of the Visceraith:

Shatter Bone (Su): Four times a day, a visceraith can try to shatter a limb-bone or jaw-bone of a single opponent within 60 feet. Shatter bone cannot affect boneless creatures, but can harm creatures whose skeletons are made of chitin rather than bone, such as most vermin. The opponent must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or suffer compound fractures in the targeted bone, which inflicts 2d6+4 damage. Whenever a creature with shattered bones makes a move or standard action, it must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or take an additional 1d4 points of damage. The Fort DC and damage increases by +1 for each extra limb or jaw bone that is shattered (e.g. DC 18 and 1d4+2 for three shattered bones). A DC 15 Heal check can immobilize a victim's shattered bones and prevent this additional damage. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

In addition to the damage, a shattered bone imposes the following penalties: a body part with a shattered bone lacks the Strength to hold and carry objects or make attacks, held items are dropped, but worn items are not dropped; if a shattered limb is used for locomotion (for example, a leg), the target's speed drops by three-quarters and Dexterity suffers a -8 circumstance penalty; if a shattered limb is used for manipulation (for example, an arm), the target's Dexterity suffers a -8 circumstance penalty and all spells with somatic components require a Concentration check (minimum DC 15); a target with a shattered jaw bone suffers a -8 circumstance penalty on skills checks requiring speech and all spells with verbal components require a Concentration check (minimum DC 15).

A shattered bone normally takes 2d4+4 weeks to heal naturally (half that time if DC 15 Heal checks are used to provide long-term care), but can be instantly cured with a restoration or higher-level healing spell.

 

[freyar]

The wording for push is good.

That Shatter Bone ability looks pretty close to what we want. I'd say that we could drop the actual bone part, and I'm not sure about the healing. But otherwise, it seems like we can work with that.

 

[Cleon]

The wording for push is good.

So combining that all makes:

Concentrated Push (Su): When the Keeper of the Keys uses unarmed strike, it can use one of its unarmed attacks to make a special touch attack that does not provoke an attack of opportunity (it can use any remaining attacks to make normal unarmed strike attacks). If the touch attack hits, it does no damage and the Keeper and target make opposed Strength checks, The Keeper gets a +4 bonus to the Strength contest. In addition, the Keeper and the defender add a +4 bonus for each size category they are larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for each size category they are smaller than Medium. If the Keeper wins the opposed check, the defender moves back 5 feet plus an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which the Keeper's check result is greater than the defender's. If the Keeper loses the opposed check by 5 points or more, it is pushed 5 feet straight backwards. A pushed creature takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If the creature is pushed over a precipice, it takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater. If the defender or Keeper is pushed into an occupied space, they fall prone.​

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The Keeper may remain in place or move with the defender, but can't exceed its normal movement limit. The defender and Keeper provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures if moved, but do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other.​

Does that look done to you?

Will think about how to reword Shatter Bone later.

 

[freyar]

Concentrated Push looks good!

I think I'm revising my opinion on Incapacitator, though perhaps this interpretation is more boring. (It's much less complicated and doesn't require us to remove bone references, though!) The original Incapacitator says it works like the withering palm spell. In 3.5, that seems to function similar to a rod of withering --- a successful attack deals Con and Str damage, which converts to drain on a critical hit. How about we just go with that?

 

[Cleon]

Concentrated Push looks good!

Updating The Keeper of the Key Working Draft.

I think I'm revising my opinion on Incapacitator, though perhaps this interpretation is more boring. (It's much less complicated and doesn't require us to remove bone references, though!) The original Incapacitator says it works like the withering palm spell. In 3.5, that seems to function similar to a rod of withering --- a successful attack deals Con and Str damage, which converts to drain on a critical hit. How about we just go with that?

Hold on a sec, I'll post the relevant spells and items for comparison purposes.

Here's the withering palm Wu Jen spell…

Withering Palm (Evocation)

Level: 7 Range: Touch Duration: Instantaneous Area of Effect: Creature touched

Components: V, S Casting Time: 4 segments Saving Throw: 1/2

 This spell acts similar to a staff of withering. Upon casting the spell, the wu jen must touch the victim. If a successful hit roll is made, the victim suffers 3d6 points of damage and must make a successful saving throw vs. spell to avoid the withering effect. If the saving throw is failed, one limb of the creature (either the limb touched or one randomly determined) becomes shriveled and useless. The head is not considered a limb! If the saving throw is successful, the creature still suffers damage but does not undergo withering. If an arm is withered, the character can still fight, though he cannot use two-handed weapons. Spells requiring somatic components can be cast 75% of the time. If a leg is withered, the character's movement rate is reduced to 1/4 its normal. Armor Class decreases by 3 and the character suffers a -4 on his chance to hit. A withered limb can be restored by the use of heal, limited wish, and wish spells.​

…the 1E staff of withering…

Staff of Withering: The staff of withering is a + 1 magic weapon. A hit from it causes 2-5 points of damage. If 2 charges are expended when a hit is scored, the creature struck will also age 10 years, its abilities and life span adjusted far the resulting age increase. If 3 charges are expended when a hit is made, 1 of the opponent creature’s limbs can be made to shrivel and become useless unless it saves versus magic (check by random number generation for which member is struck). Note that ageless creatures (undead, demons, devils, etc.) cannot be aged or withered. Each effect of the staff is cumulative, so that 3 charges will score damage, age, and wither. Aging a dwarf is of little effect, while aging a dragon could actually aid the creature.

…and the 3E equivalent of the rod of withering…

Withering
A rod of withering acts as a +1 light mace that deals no hit point damage. Instead, the wielder deals 1d4 points of Strength damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage to any creature she touches with the rod (by making a melee touch attack). If she scores a critical hit, the damage from that hit is permanent ability drain. In either case, the defender negates the effect with a DC 17 Fortitude save.

Hmm…

There's not much commonality between Incapacitator and the withering powers.

The primary effect of withering is permanent damage (aging or limb shrivelling in 1E, ability damage or ability drain in 3E),

Incapacitator is only temporary. The incapacitated limb or digit recovers naturally after 24 hours.

To me it's pretty clear the text for Incapacitator only refers to withering palm for the effects of a limb being rendered useless, i.e.:

If an arm is withered, the character can still fight, though he cannot use two-handed weapons. Spells requiring somatic components can be cast 75% of the time. If a leg is withered, the character's movement rate is reduced to 1/4 its normal. Armor Class decreases by 3 and the character suffers a -4 on his chance to hit. A withered limb can be restored by the use of heal, limited wish, and wish spells.​

If we made Incapacitator do ability damage/drain, the target would only become incapacitated if they took so much Strength or Dexterity damage their ability score dropped to 0 and they became helpless or paralyzed, which would render then completely unable to act rather than being able to act with a reduced capacity because they don't have full use of their limbs.

Also, if we used ability damage the effects would not vanish entirely after 24 hours like the OA version, but the target would heal the ability damage at 1 or two points per day, meaning they'd be helpless or paralyzed for the first day (or 12 hours) then be able to act again with Strength or Dexterity 1.

I could see it imposing an Ability Penalty though, since "Ability damage is different from penalties to ability scores, which go away when the conditions causing them go away."

Oh, and I wouldn't use Constitution damage/drain like 3E withering since Incapacitator isn't a lethal ability. A target hit by an Incapacitator attack could die from the normal damage of its unarmed strike, but not from the Incapacitating effect. They don't become unable to breathe or suffer heart failure or other forms of fatal paralysis, they are just partially immobilized in one or more extremity which explicitly excludes their head.

 

[freyar]

OK, I'm convinced not to use withering. And we could go with a modified version of the visceraith's Shatter Bone if you really want. But what if we simplified somewhat. Like make it Dex damage plus one other random effect (rolled on a 1d4 or 1d6 etc) like can't use somatic components, can't use a ranged weapon, can't use two-handed weapons, takes a speed penalty, or something?