Converting the Dukes of Hell

[Shroomy]

I really don't like the idea that he can summon an aspect of Tiamat. The power levels of an aspect have too much variation, and there is no hard and fast rules to create them. I still prefer the option of summoning fiendish chromatic dragons.

 

[Shroomy]

Boz, one other thing I noticed, shouldn't Amduscias have the shapechanger sub-type?

 

[Gothenem]

Aspect of Tiamat has a CR of 11 (In Races of the Dragon, Miniature's Handbook, and Dragon Magic, Red Hand of Doom).

That was the one I was thinking of.

As for power level, the spell "Summon Aspect of Tiamat" in Dragon magic is listed as an 8th-level spell.

As for the Shapechanger subtype, the Eladrins don't have it...

is that necessary with the Vile Natural Attack (horn) feat?

There is a difference between all the damage of an attack being vile, and only 1 point of damage being vile. This is a suggestion instead of Bleeding Wounds. In a sense, wounds that CAN'T be healed (at least not easily).

 

[Cheiromancer]

Every time I see this thread I want to say "Just put a helm of opposite alignment on them!"

Seriously, though, you guys are doing damned good work.

 

[Gothenem]

Hey, that might make for an interesting new Celestial Paragon.

 

[Shade]

OK, trying to play catch-up here...

Vile Horn - I like the concept, and I'm fine with it, but I don't want to lose the bleeding wounds, as the original source material was pretty clear that the horn functions as a "sword of wounding". If we go this route, we'll want to replace the vile natural attack (gore) feat.

Summoning - I prefer the aspect of Tiamat to fiendish chromatic dragons, for several reasons. First, summoning things that don't already have clearly defined stat blocks can be annoying for DMs (of course, we've been guilty of this before ). Secondly, I like the concept of calling on his Queen's favor directly in the form of an aspect.

Baatezu subtype - absolutely!

Shapechanger subtype - Probably unnecessary as most of the fiends with alternate form or change shape abilities don't have it (see revised imp, quasit, succubus for examples).

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

Aspect of Tiamat has a CR of 11 (In Races of the Dragon, Miniature's Handbook, and Dragon Magic, Red Hand of Doom).

That was the one I was thinking of.

As for power level, the spell "Summon Aspect of Tiamat" in Dragon magic is listed as an 8th-level spell.

oh! well in that case, i guess that's fine. how do we indicate it clearly in the writeup that this is the version we're talking about? just a page number referencing Races of Dragon good enough?

Vile Horn - I like the concept, and I'm fine with it, but I don't want to lose the bleeding wounds, as the original source material was pretty clear that the horn functions as a "sword of wounding". If we go this route, we'll want to replace the vile natural attack (gore) feat.

yeah, i agree completely - keep the wounding, and if we use the Vile Horn we don't double up with the feat and need to replace the VNA feat.

Shapechanger subtype - Probably unnecessary as most of the fiends with alternate form or change shape abilities don't have it (see revised imp, quasit, succubus for examples).

indeed.

 

[Shade]

oh! well in that case, i guess that's fine. how do we indicate it clearly in the writeup that this is the version we're talking about? just a page number referencing Races of Dragon good enough?

That would work, except Dragon Magic, p. 110 is probably the most current source. We might offer up an alternate for folks not using that book...maybe a five-headed hydra that gets a 12d8 breath weapon of acid, cold, electricity, or fire (its choice) and the poison stinger of a wyvern?

 

[Gothenem]

That would work, except Dragon Magic, p. 110 is probably the most current source. We might offer up an alternate for folks not using that book...maybe a five-headed hydra that gets a 12d8 breath weapon of acid, cold, electricity, or fire (its choice) and the poison stinger of a wyvern?

Agreed. The Hydra option is pretty good for those who don't have the stats for the Aspect.

 

[Shroomy]

That would work, except Dragon Magic, p. 110 is probably the most current source. We might offer up an alternate for folks not using that book...maybe a five-headed hydra that gets a 12d8 breath weapon of acid, cold, electricity, or fire (its choice) and the poison stinger of a wyvern?

Tiamat's aspect is also available for free as part of the FCII Web Enhancement; I believe this is the most current version. If you are going down the route of having Amduscias summon an aspect of Tiamat, I would leave it at that or make fiendish dragons the back-up. There are no real rules for quickly creating a hydra with five different breath weapons and a poison stinger other than the rules for creating a brand new monster, so you'd be adding a lot more work for the DM since they will have to create it from scratch.