D&D 5E Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[ECMO3]

Yes.

View attachment 365444

First listed, first method, and the default. Optionally, you can ust the standard array as an "offical option". Point-buy is a variant option for people who want super-customization.


Fine, I guess...

Agreed. Using RAW default, getting a 7 is relatively common and 5 or 6 are not unheard of.

Most of my characters have faired pretty well in 5E regardless of ability scores. As a matter of fact I don't think I ever had a character whos lowest score was lower than an 8 die.

When characters die in 5E it is usually at low level, it is usually due to unlucky dice and higher ability scores would not have made a difference.

 

[Guest 7037866]

Big muscles don't correlate directly to strength. Gymnasts in particular are super strong but with relatively small muscles.

But they SURE help a lot!

You're right...this guy doesn't look strong at all.

Anyway, let's separate things that need to be separated when it comes to something like Strength.

Strength (in 5E) measures bodily power, athletic training, and the extent to which you can exert raw physical force.

1. Bodily power -- muscle. Arnold has more than Bruce, no doubt about it, although Bruce is still stellar.
2. Athletic training -- both would have it, but Bruce would have the lion's share IMO.
3. Extent of exerting raw physical force -- Arnold probably has the edge in this one, but with a huge caveat: Bruce has a lot more speed!

A little science: force = mass x acceleration.

Arnold would have more mass, of course, but Bruce more acceleration. All things considered, the force of each hitting would probably be close IMO.

This is why a PC with +5 Strength modifier blends all three, likely close to max in one or two categories, if not all three. It is why I would not give Arnold nor Bruce a STR 20, but certainly 16+, maybe 18's even...

 

[Guest 7037866]

Agreed. Using RAW default, getting a 7 is relatively common and 5 or 6 are not unheard of.

Most of my characters have faired pretty well in 5E regardless of ability scores. As a matter of fact I don't think I ever had a character whos lowest score was lower than an 8 die.

When characters die in 5E it is usually at low level, it is usually due to dice and higher ability scores would not have made a difference.

I've found when I play a PC with a lower score, I am actually more cautious so they do tend to stay alive.

 

[Remathilis]

No, they want a citation that not giving orcs a strength bonus is very bad. Like that isn't obviously an opinion.

An opinion stated as fact.

 

[ECMO3]

We've been through that. They are not stronger than body builders by the definitions of strength commonly used. Google the strongest person and you get body builders, not gymnasts.

You won't get body builders listed as the world's strongest man. You will get weight lifters and they aren't all 6 foot tall either.

 

[Maxperson]

You won't get body builders listed as the world's strongest man. You will get weight lifters and they aren't all 6 foot tall either.

Height is completely irrelevant to what I have been saying, so 6 feet tall isn't a thing here. Body builders are nearly the same thing as weight lifters. Both build actual strength. Not strength, endurance and dexterity like gymnasts. In any case, you won't find gymnasts anywhere on that list.

Gymnasts are strong for their size, but are not anywhere near as a strong as a body builder or weightlifter who focuses on physical strength to the exclusion of the others. You're conflating their endurance(constitution), which allows them to hold positions for longer periods and engage slow, steady movements with strength. Gymnasts have higher constitution scores than body builders or weightlifters, because they train their muscles for that as well as strength and agility.

 

[Remathilis]

You won't get body builders listed as the world's strongest man. You will get weight lifters and they aren't all 6 foot tall either.

Exactly, ever see a strongman contest? Those Dudes are built like barrels and look fat because they are actually using muscle for strength, not decoration.

 

[Micah Sweet]

An opinion stated as fact.

Ok, fair enough. My hypocrisy only goes so far, I guess.

 

[ECMO3]

Body builders are nearly the same thing as weight lifters.

Body builders are not the same thing as weight lifters. No Body builder has ever been named world's strongest man and none of the people who have been named worlds strongest man would even place in an amature body building competition.

This statement is like saying female models are the same thing as female tennis players. One is an athlete and one is not.

World's Strongest man:

Body builder:

The guy in the second photo has MUCH bigger muscles and the guy in the first photo is MUCH stronger.

Both build actual strength. Not strength, endurance and dexterity like gymnasts. In any case, you won't find gymnasts anywhere on that list.

Gymnasts are strong for their size, but are not anywhere near as a strong as a body builder or weightlifter who focuses on physical strength to the exclusion of the others.

You won't find body builders either.

Body builders don't focus on strength conditioning, they focus on muscle size and definition. Gymnasts (and weight lifters) do focus on strength conditioning.

 

[Maxperson]

Body builders are not the same thing as weight lifters. No Body builder has ever been named world's strongest man and none of the people who have been named worlds strongest man would even place in an amature body building competition.

This statement is like saying female models are the same thing as female tennis players. One is an athlete and one is not.

World's Strongest man:

View attachment 365482


Body builder:

View attachment 365479

The guy in the second photo has MUCH bigger muscles and the guy in the first photo is MUCH stronger.

You misunderstand. They are essentially the same because they build actual strength, unlike gymnasts who only build some strength.

Body builders don't focus on strength conditioning, they focus on muscle size and definition.

And yet they gain quite a bit of it. Not focusing on it doesn't make it go away.

Gymnasts (and weight lifters) do focus on strength conditioning.

And get a little bit of it, along with agility and endurance. They are not as strong as either of the two in those photos you showed.