D&D 5E (2014) Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[ECMO3]

Jeremy Crawford loves Tavern Brawler
This is his personal stamp after we down voted out Brawler fighter.

The Tavern Brawler feat is fine. The sailor background makes no sense at all for a stereotypical Monk.

I am not saying you should not be able to use that background, but it should not be the "default" Monk background. I think that should be Accolyte or Sage, or maybe Hermits like Cream said, all of which are generally bad backgrounds mechanically for a Monk.

The problem really is in the 2024 background system. Pretty much we play entirely with a custom background option in virtually all my 2024 games because of the silly way it is organized and stovepiped.

You want to play a character with a background that sailed on ships prior to adventuring in what would typically be called a Sailor? Call it a "Seaman", then pick 2 skills, 2 abilities, a tool and a feat to go with it.

 

[Minigiant]

The Tavern Brawler feat is fine. The sailor background makes no sense at all for a stereotypical Monk.

I meant that Crawford was attempting to force his favorite archetype to get it a core background.

Like druidic magic works with a Guide as they are wilderness escorts. It matches Rangers naturally.

Drunkard would be best for Tavern Brawler but you know...

 

[CreamCloud0]

Drunkard would be best for Tavern Brawler but you know...

you could at least call it 'roughneck' to not put such an unappealing angle on it, while i'm certain there would be some (there always are) most players probably don't want to imagine their character starting out quite so down on their luck and in the gutters (and then you don't need to explain where a drunkard obtained their starting gear).

 

[Minigiant]

you could at least call it 'roughneck' to not put such an unappealing angle on it, while i'm certain there would be some (there always are) most players probably don't want to imagine their character starting out quite so down on their luck and in the gutters (and then you don't need to explain where a drunkard obtained their starting gear).

Roughneck works.

Or City Slicker or Urbanite

Basically the type of people who would be good at unarmed and improvised strikes would be someone who commonly has fights but in places where you can't openly wield weapons.

But overall, the point is the the root of a Ranger is a natural occurrence in the common D&D world.

 

[VHawkwinter]

Ranger and Rogue fullfill the same niche that I have had legendary game designers argue that Robin Hood is a rogue.

Robin Hood as a rogue makes sense to me too. Yeah I can see it.

If the paragon of ranger is not your class, it is extraneous.

Or it could maybe be renamed.

So I'm asking.

Is the Ranger a necessary Class?

IMO, Ranger/Shifter, Paladin/Warpriest/Inquisitor, and (Eldritch Knight / Arcane Archer / Duskblade / Magus / etc) - are useful in that they're hybrid classes. Fighter-Druid; Fighter-Priest; and Fighter-Mage.

Whether they're effective as hybrid classes or you should just multi class - I dunno. If I cut Ranger though, I'm inclined to cut all the hybrid classes.

 

[Maxperson]

I meaned "the" first edition. 0e. When rangers had wizard spells and cleric spells.

The 1st edition was 1e. There were other games of D&D like the one you are referencing there, but those weren't editions of D&D the way that 1e-5e are. Calling anything but 1e the first edition is just going to cause confusion.

 

[Minigiant]

The 1st edition was 1e. There were other games of D&D like the one you are referencing there, but those weren't editions of D&D the way that 1e-5e are. Calling anything but 1e the first edition is just going to cause confusion.

I mean OD&D, the actual first version of D&D. D&D is weird were it was published then released a totally redesigned 1st edition after.

My point was the Ranger is older than Druid so it needed to borrow wizard and cleric spells to get its effects as druid didn't exist yet.

 

[Minigiant]

Personally if I were to able to redesign D&D, I'd "demote" Druid to a subclass of Cleric (replacing Nature Clerics) and make Ranger the standard bearer of nature, animal, plant, and elemental weapon magic. Wildshape would be placed in its own class.

The only base class that would get nature magic would be Ranger. High level Druidic magic would be gated behind subclasses of Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock. Those spells are really only "Natural Disaster as a spell" spells and Reincarnate anyway.

 

[Mecheon]

Personally if I were to able to redesign D&D, I'd "demote" Druid to a subclass of Cleric (replacing Nature Clerics)

I'd hate this. Frankly the druid and cleric should be set up as enemy classes to each other.

Nature clerics fail miserably at actually being nature worshipers to the point if you want a decent one, you'd have to scrap the cleric chassis entirely as its generally useless at doing it. They're just clerics, with all of their anti-undead features and clanking around in chainmail. Someone from a more rural group who's worshiping nature and tapping into that side shouldn't be nigh on indistinguishable from, well, let's be honest, the whole crusader vibe the rest of the Clerics are going for.

Let's be honest: Clerics do an awful job at representing anything outside of their very specific niche of wanna-be knights, and the Druid is such an evocative and longstanding idea that removing all it has to replace it with the unfitting, chainmail armor wearing, blatantly Crusader expy class that is the cleric seems a massive waste, to say nothing of the Bad Look of the wilder nature worshiper being replaced by the clean, civilized force that would want to wipe out druids

 

[Horwath]

Personally if I were to able to redesign D&D, I'd "demote" Druid to a subclass of Cleric (replacing Nature Clerics) and make Ranger the standard bearer of nature, animal, plant, and elemental weapon magic. Wildshape would be placed in its own class.

The only base class that would get nature magic would be Ranger. High level Druidic magic would be gated behind subclasses of Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock. Those spells are really only "Natural Disaster as a spell" spells and Reincarnate anyway.

this.

you are a mage.

take feats:
wild shape
animal companion
some armor proficiency

take nature/elemental themed spells.
...

congratulations, you are now a druid.