D&D General Creating a Pride Flag for my D&D setting

[UngainlyTitan]

My thoughts:

It seems odd to me that elves would have need for a pride flag, as I would expect elven culture to be far more accepting of diversity than human culture.

I do applaud such representation in D&D. But I think this is better done through including LGBTQ characters, and having it just be normal and accepted.

Also, why would a revelry have wizards fight to the death? Even if they are resurrected afterwards, a death is still a death, and not at all joyful. Can't they just have a mock duel, involving illusions and an elaborate stunt show?

But, bare in mind that I'm not LGBTQ, so my perspective may be different.

This also echoes my thoughts.

 

[Steampunkette]

I stand by my previous points.

1) Without oppression there's no reason to create a Pride flag, of a unifying drive to make something representative of minority identities combining together for strength in numbers.
2) Making it all about the revelry and sex and reproduction is fairly squicky, as it plays heavily into the hypersexualization tropes.
3) Inserting Genitals into the flag to try and be more "Comprehensive" just comes across as kind of gross and othering. Trans women are women, not "Trans women are women who are different from cis women and should be marked as such"
4) Nonbinary people feeling binaristic because of their genital configuration is gross and invalidating.
5) Genders aren't "Opposites" and Nonbinary individuals aren't a "Third Sex" or "Third Gender".

And join Imaculata and Ungainly Titan in:
6) Elves should be more accepting of different identities and specifically have no need for codifying their identity with a series of colors that may change as they grow older because finding yourself is a journey.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

View attachment 252329
Elven Pride Flag (Yaarel 2022)



I am creating an elven Pride Flag for my D&D setting. In it, the feywild elves (especially eladrin) celebrate an annual sacred revelry: the Revelry.

A bit like Star Trek vulcans, the fey elven court cultures tend to spend the entire year obsessively pursuing magic − research, spells, rituals, items − and searching and innovating new theoretical and practical magical applications. But once a year, these fey elves overflow into romance and wild partying. The mood of the Revelry is a bit like US Valentines Day, Brazil Mardi Gras, Scotland Edinburgh Tattoo, and Israel Purim − rolling into one megacelebration. The Revelry lasts 15 days, from the new moon to the full moon. All of the various local and regional elf courts gather from the far reaches of the multiverse to join in the fun − and celebrants from other races join in as well.

During the Revelry, Bards and Druids use illusions and elemental magic for spectacular magical cinema entertainment, including hologram conjurations, animate elementals, and first-person virtual-reality experiences. Wizards duel to the death as a sporting event, where the vanquished resurrects after the duel. Other kinds of events pervade the celebrations. Adults can enjoy various magical intoxicants, and potions in the form of superhumanly gorgeous foods. The eladrin also utilize this sacred gathering for massive, collective, epic level, world altering, rituals.

But mostly, the Revelry is for romance.

The various community events are for participants to show off their prowesses to attract their prospective mates.

Culturally, the Revelry is when the fey elves conceive children. Despite being fey − thus ethereal − spirits, these elves can birth children "naturally" via pregnancy, or magically such as bringing a statue to life. Because of magic, it is also possible for a group of elves to become the "biological" parents of a single child, and all share in the parental responsibilities as the child matures. All conceptions involve some means of exchanging a drop of elven blood from each parent. The resulting parental bonds are instinctive and fierce. It takes about 20 years for an elf child to reach full adulthood − physically and emotionally − but thereafter the elf remains eternally youthful. Even so, elven cultures dont recognize the "adulthood" that comes from diverse experiences until an elf reaches the real age of 100 years. Then there is a kind of initiation rite of passage into adulthood, traditionally during the Revelry of the hundredth year. Elven parents are normally one or more centuries in age. The elves often make the pilgrimages to the Revelry as a family traveling together among the other families from their own particular court or other community.

There are no gods per-se in this setting. However Corellon is an ancient epic level elf. Various elven communities who descend from them view them as somehow both ones own deeply loved grandparent and ones own rebellious teenager. Originating from their personal − now cultural − values of Corellon, the nonbinary identities enjoy a culturally celebrated status. It is an example of the community a whole being holy.

The Revelry romances can involve any combinations of individual identities. Moreover, magic empowers any adult individuals to sire a child together.



For my setting, I find it fun for the various prospective mates to have a way to identify oneself as well as the prospective mate that one is seeking, during the Revelry.

Accordingly, this Pride Flag for the elven romances represents the diverse identities of all of the participants of the Revelry. Moreover, each color of the elven Pride Flag has a specific meaning, whose combinations of colors can function like a coat-of-arms to identify an individual. The combinations can represent oneself, or who one is seeking.

The flag has nine colors.

• The three reddish colors (purple, crimson, and orange) represent Woman.

• The three yellowish colors (yellow, white, and green) represent Nonbinary.

• The three bluish colors (aqua, sky, and indigo) represent Man.

Specifically, each triad distinguishes into anatomical body, psychological gender, and community fellowship.



• The crimson is the community of Woman, and its members tend to correlate the pronoun "she".

• The white is the community of Nonbinary, and its members tend to correlate the pronoun "they".

• The sky is the community of Man, and its members tend to correlate the pronoun "he".



Most elven individuals self-identify with one of these three identity communities via their anatomy and-or their gender. But some identify with more than one or none.

Note, during the year the elven cultures are typically strictly egalitarian. Individuals focus on the pursuit of magic. During the Revelry especially these colors adorn the joyous celebrations of identities and love.



The Woman community (crimson) includes individuals who associate their own female anatomy (purple) with ones womanhood, as well as individuals who associate their own feminine gender (orange) with ones womanhood.

Importantly, an individual can self-identify with the colors orange-aqua-crimson as a feminine-male-woman. An other individual elf woman can identify with orange-purple-yellow-aqua-crimson, being a woman who maintains a prominent femininity (orange) while her anatomy shapeshifts between female (purple), intesex (yellow), and male (aqua). An other elf woman might self-identify with the colors orange-yellow-crimson, a feminine intersex woman. Alternatively, many other identify permutations of woman are possible.

Generally the womanly colors use the colors purple-crimson-orange, but normally add a field of white to include the other, infinite, possibilities that are difficult to fit inside a color scheme of identities.



The Nonbinary community (white) includes individuals who associate their intersex anatomy (yellow) with their nonbinaryhood, as well as individuals who associate their genderqueer gender (green) with their nonbinaryhood. Genderqueer is an umbrella term that includes bigender (simultaneously both-feminine-and-masculine), thirdgender (a distinctive gender that is neither-masculine-nor-feminine), agender (sometimes referred to as gender-blind, finding gender itself personally meaningless), and genderfluid (shifting between two or more gender possibilities including, masculine, feminine, one of the genderqueer genders, or other.

In some cases, the intersex color, yellow, might in the context seeking out a mate or signifying ones own personal anatomical shapeshifing fluidity, refer to anatomy-blind. Compare a pansexual community, who form relations regardless of whatever ones anatomy may be.

Some yellow anatomical intersex Nonbinary members may still feel a strong sense of personal gender. Likewise, some green genderqueer Nonbinary members may still feel a strong sense of anatomical bodily self-identify.

The white color represents the Nonbinary community. This white color also does double-duty to represent innocence and a transcendence that exists beyond any opposites. White can include the infinite possible identities of all humanity − or rather the endless potential of elven identities.

The Nonbinary colors of yellow-white-green are inherently inclusive. These colors associate with Corellon personally, a fluid shapeshifter. Likewise, elven cultures often use yellow-white-green as the sacred colors for their elven court systems of self-government.

The Nonbinary community tends to include individuals who self-identify via their intersex anatomy and-or their genderqueer gender. But any permutation of combinations are possible within the Nonbinary community. Moreover, white can add to other color combinations to signify the presence of any unique individuals who might not self-identify with any of the nine culturally prominent identities.

Because magic can permanently shapechange a body, the elves can have whatever anatomy they want to be ones "true form". Nevertheless, besides fluid explorations, elves rarely choose a true anatomy that differs from ones birth. The elven cultures appreciate and strongly encourage the infinite possibilities of unique individuals. One notable exception is, individuals who − as a culturally sacred institution − adopt their grandparent Corellon as a household head of ones new adopted family. There is no requirement, but many individuals of the House of Corellon voluntarily adopt a permanent intersex "true form".



The Man community (sky) includes individuals who self-identify with manhood via their male anatomy (aqua) and-or their masculine gender (indigo). But any permutations of identity are also possible within the manhood. For example, an individual can display the colors indigo-purple-sky, when self-idenfying as a masculine-female-man. Likewise, the orange-aqua-sky colors for a feminine-male-man can self-identify with the Man community. And any permutations are possible.

Generally, the manly colors are aqua-sky-indigo-plus-white.



Sometimes an individual adds the colors of black for romantic-only (asexual) and-or of gray for sexual-only (aromantic). Combining black-and-gray represents no bonding, neither romantically nor sexually, but one can still form close relationships with friends and colleagues, of course. The black-and-gray individuals usually also self-identify with the anatomy, gender, and-or community of one or more of the nine colors in the elven Pride Flag.

The colors of celestial love (angelic, platonic) are simply white Nonbinary with black Romantic. As noted earlier, the sacred colors of the elven government courts are the Nonbinary yellow-white-green.



Note, the colors of the flag derive from technical considerations. They are 8 equidistant hues forming a compass on the Munsell color wheel, where "north" and "west" are a warm yellow and a crimson red, respectively. All eight hues result from this orientation. These eight colors adapt to the irregularities of RGB digital hues, and for its HSL system, each Hue is always 100% Saturation and 50% Luminance. In addition to these eight hues, the ninth color, white, adds.

The eight hues are "complementary colors", meaning, if you stare at the elven Pride Flag and then look at a blank white background, the afterimage is an other Pride Flag with the reverse colors.



I am mentioning the elven Pride Flag for my setting, here, because I want it to be as inclusive, useful, and as sensitive as possible. Any thoughtful comments about this Pride Flag and its fey elven cultures generally, are welcome.



In sum, here are the meanings of the nine colors of the elven Pride Flag (Yaarel 2022).

• Purple: female anatomy
• Crimson: Woman community
• Orange: feminine gender

• Yellow: intesex anatomy
• White: Nonbinary community
• Green: genderqueer gender

• Aqua: male anatomy
• Sky: Man community
• Indigo: masculine gender


In addition to this Pride Flag representing elven diversity generally, individuals use one or more specific colors to express ones own identity or to signal to a prospective mate who one is seeking. An elven household often displays a flag or banner with sections for the colors of each headofhousehold mate.

In the setting, a historical local eladrin court innovated the elven Pride Flag and its usage for various coat-of-arms. But these days, most elven courts embrace it. The colors are especially prominent during the romantic flourishings of the annual sacred Revelry. Additionally, many of the cultures of other races have also adopted it.

Why Brazil Mardi Gras and not New Orleans?

 

[Yaarel]

Regarding the fey elf setting:

WoTC or any commercial designer worth their salt is not going to define a fantasy species too narrowly. They want players of all types to play any playable creatures.

In my view, the designers must make the D&D core rules as inclusive as possible from many different players to be able to enjoy.

At the same time, each setting needs to be flavorful with specific details.

Meanwhile, the DM might need to adapt a setting to the meet the enjoyment of the players at the table.

But the DM shouldnt need to waste time fighting against core rules. The core needs to be broadly inclusive.

On the topic of Norse lore, I know enough to be dangerous but not to really comment on your take.

Different cultures have different feelings about the use of culturally sacred heritage.

Generally, Nordic cultures like when other cultures have fun with Nordic heritage. But. It is important to avoid misrepresenting Nordic peoples. If one is riffing off from Nordic inspiration, it is important that the reinvention is clearly non-Norse.

For example, Norse views about elves inform my fey elf setting. But when I am actually referring to D&D eladrin, I never refer to these elves as if "Norse elves", despite the fact that people familiar with Nordic heritages would recognize some of these features.

Most prominent among the fey elves are the "sun elf" eladrin and the "moon elf" eladrin. But there are other eladrin cultures as well. The sun elves derive from Norse concepts, while the moon elves derive from Celtic concepts. These artistic licenses are D&D fantasy.

I have also toyed with the idea that elves lay eggs that hatch when incorporated in to the roots of trees and become dryads. When their tree dies the dryad metamorphoses into an elf. Weird eh!

In the fey elf setting, elves can reproduce "naturally" via pregnancy, albeit additionally exchanging a drop of blood for conception.

But elves can also reproduce magically, via rituals, such as bringing a statue to life. Forming eggs whose children shapechange as dryads, can be one of these rituals.

If offspring are created through a ritual involving combining drops of blood, why do these elves even have genitals or dimorphic biologies? Did they used to make babies the human way and then just... stop at some point?

In some ways elves are strictly nonhuman. They are manifestations of nature. The Norse-esque "sun elves" are literally the auras and beams of sunlight. This sun elf culture is solar and skyey. The Celtic-esque "moon elves" are literally the fertile soil. This elf culture is vegetative and earthy. There are other fey elf cultures and origins as well, including sea elves and shadar-kai.

When sunlight and soil project themselves into human or human-esque forms, they do so out of curiosity and fondness for humans. Ultimately, elves can shapechange into any form, but the term "elf" specifies the ones who enjoy being humanesque.

Shapechange is primordial to elven cultures. Unlike the fey changelings who shapechange spontaneously, the fey elves moreso shapechange as a community adapting to an environment.

My impression is that your idea is "too human" - or rather, too much a product of our own world. Instead of thinking how to apply something that is very much the product of our own history and culture into what could be a rather alien, fantasy culture, I would think in terms of how an elvish race that embodied such gender and sexual diversity would naturally and organically evolve.

Half-elves have been part of D&D traditions since its origins.

Where the parents of a half-elf assume cisgender heterosexual human and elf, people seem to assume this is "normal" and expected. I have never heard someone complain that half-elves are "too human".

But if there is objection to the possibility that some elf and human parents are transgender and homosexual, it feels like an attempt to silence these characters and their reallife players − by means of an inconsistent pretext that they are somehow not "alien" enough. Most D&D races are obviously humanlike.

Plus, the references to being manifestations of nature, reproducing via exchanges of blood, emphasizing shapeshifting, and prioritizing magic all help hint at the nonhuman origins.

 

[Yaarel]

My thoughts:

It seems odd to me that elves would have need for a pride flag, as I would expect elven culture to be far more accepting of diversity than human culture.

I am taking to heart the pushback against the use of Pride Flag for a scenario that is cultural rather than countercultural.

At the same time, the fact that flag is about wellbeing and inclusivity matters to me. There are many variations of the Rainbow Flag that are for more specific purposes, and this elven one is one of them.

The communities have a wellbeing flag for the same reason that India has a flag of India and Norway has a flag of Norway − and the New Orleans Mardi Gras has purple-gold-green banners.

Symbolizing the pride of ones own identity communities is a good in itself.

I am still mulling and internalizing the other perspectives.

I do applaud such representation in D&D. But I think this is better done through including LGBTQ characters, and having it just be normal and accepted.

I agree LGBTQ is normal. It is important to portray such characters as part of welcoming communities.

Also, why would a revelry have wizards fight to the death?

During the festival, the fey elf wizards duel to the death for fun. It is part of a cultural display of the power of magic.

Even if they are resurrected afterwards, a death is still a death, and not at all joyful. Can't they just have a mock duel, involving illusions and an elaborate stunt show?

And magic is more powerful than death.

But, bare in mind that I'm not LGBTQ, so my perspective may be different. In my own campaign, I deliberately showed how it wasn't always accepted, depending on the culture.

It is ok for specific settings to explore hatespeak against specific identity groups. Obviously the hategroups are Evil.

But I feel core rules need to avoid hateful content, and even make a special effort to remove it when it shows up accidentally.

I highlighted the lunacy of characters pretending to be someone they're not, and what pressure a person could be under to hide their true self due to social norms.

It occurs to me, to some degree, the fey changelings can play out these themes of surviving by hiding oneself.

Especially among royalty and the upper class.

Yeah. Ironically. Elites often have the least possibility of personal freedoms.

But most importantly, I made sure to include LGBTQ characters that were just as interesting and compelling as any other. I didn't want it to seem like I was simply checking boxes. I used such characters where they would fit, or would make for interesting drama.

Yeah. Each person is a person.

 

[Yaarel]

In the setting, the fey elves form lifelong bonds during the Revelry. Especially, when they choose to become parents.

Most of the year, the elves pursue magic work. But once a year, these elven spouses and singles, put aside their work to focus on their relationship and romance.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Regarding the fey elf setting:


In my view, the designers must make the D&D core rules as inclusive as possible from many different players to be able to enjoy.

At the same time, each setting needs to be flavorful with specific details.

Meanwhile, the DM might need to adapt a setting to the meet the enjoyment of the players at the table.

But the DM shouldnt need to waste time fighting against core rules. The core needs to be broadly inclusive.

Ok I have no issue with that.

Different cultures have different feelings about the use of culturally sacred heritage.

Generally, Nordic cultures like when other cultures have fun with Nordic heritage. But. It is important to avoid misrepresenting Nordic peoples. If one is riffing off from Nordic inspiration, it is important that the reinvention is clearly non-Norse.

For example, Norse views about elves inform my fey elf setting. But when I am actually referring to D&D eladrin, I never refer to these elves as if "Norse elves", despite the fact that people familiar with Nordic heritages would recognize some of these features.

Most prominent among the fey elves are the "sun elf" eladrin and the "moon elf" eladrin. But there are other eladrin cultures as well. The sun elves derive from Norse concepts, while the moon elves derive from Celtic concepts. These artistic licenses are D&D fantasy.

Well that is your take and fair enough it is your setting and world building. Work away.

In the fey elf setting, elves can reproduce "naturally" via pregnancy, albeit additionally exchanging a drop of blood for conception.

But elves can also reproduce magically, via rituals, such as bringing a statue to life. Forming eggs whose children shapechange as dryads, can be one of these rituals.

I brought up my takes with regard to elf world building as indicating where I was coming to this with regard to a conversation about world building but I would not have multiple methods of reproduction in a setting unless one of the alternatives was some kind of plot point.

In some ways elves are strictly nonhuman. They are manifestations of nature. The Norse-esque "sun elves" are literally the auras and beams of sunlight. This sun elf culture is solar and skyey. The Celtic-esque "moon elves" are literally the fertile soil. This elf culture is vegetative and earthy. There are other fey elf cultures and origins as well, including sea elves and shadar-kai.

When sunlight and soil project themselves into human or human-esque forms, they do so out of curiosity and fondness for humans. Ultimately, elves can shapechange into any form, but the term "elf" specifies the ones who enjoy being humanesque.

Shapechange is primordial to elven cultures. Unlike the fey changelings who shapechange spontaneously, the fey elves moreso shapechange as a community adapting to an environment.

Ok fair enough.

Half-elves have been part of D&D traditions since its origins.

Where the parents of a half-elf assume cisgender heterosexual human and elf, people seem to assume this is "normal" and expected. I have never heard someone complain that half-elves are "too human".

I think that @Mercurius's point is that the business of cis/trans or other orientations of elves is something too human. And I would agree. The whole LGTBQ+ and the oppression that the Pride movement is struggling against is a result of purely human things.
A large part of which is the politics of inheritance, with some complications, the details are not really germane to the topic but are very human and rooted in the nature of humans. Also connected to the fact that child rearing in humans is a lifetime project. 20 to 30 years out of 70 odd.
Half elves raised as humans may start out as very human but after 100 years or so, I suspect they gain some perspective.

The key thing that I and I think elves that live to be 700 years plus and can raise children in 30 are going to any of our human hang-ups. They may have some completely different hang-ups.

But if there is objection to the possibility that some elf and human parents are transgender and homosexual, it feels like an attempt to silence these characters and their reallife players − by means of an inconsistent pretext that they are somehow not "alien" enough. Most D&D races are obviously humanlike.

Plus, the references to being manifestations of nature, reproducing via exchanges of blood, emphasizing shapeshifting, and prioritizing magic all help hint at the nonhuman origins.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

In the setting, the fey elves form lifelong bonds during the Revelry. Especially, when they choose to become parents.

Most of the year, the elves pursue magic work. But once a year, these elven spouses and singles, put aside their work to focus on their relationship and romance.

What do the ace and aro elves do during the Revelry?

 

[Yaarel]

What do the ace and aro elves do during the Revelry?

Everyone participates in the festival activities and events.

With regard to seeking mates, the ace use the black color to clarify they are only interested in a romantic partner who can fall in love with each other, and not in a sexual relationship. The aro use the gray color to clarify they are only interested in a sexual relationship, and not a romantic one. The aro might still want a longterm intimate friendship, but it might be moreso "friends with benefits", rather than romance. Black and gray together means they are only interested in meeting new friends.

If elves are already in a relationship, they enjoy the festivities together, similar to Valentines Day.

 

[Yaarel]

I stand by my previous points.

1) Without oppression there's no reason to create a Pride flag, of a unifying drive to make something representative of minority identities combining together for strength in numbers.

Identity groups that lack oppression also have flags, banners, and symbols to celebrate their shared identity.

2) Making it all about the revelry and sex and reproduction is fairly squicky, as it plays heavily into the hypersexualization tropes.

Some of the sexual themes derive from the reallife lore about elves and similar nature beings.

I agree some caution is necessary here.

Even so, reallife festivals to celebrate love, sex, and reproduction are important in many reallife cultures. This is a normal human phenomenon.

3) Inserting Genitals into the flag to try and be more "Comprehensive" just comes across as kind of gross and othering. Trans women are women, not "Trans women are women who are different from cis women and should be marked as such"

4) Nonbinary people feeling binaristic because of their genital configuration is gross and invalidating.

Some individuals are "anatomy blind", and the shapes of primary anatomical features and secondary anatomical characteristics, are irrelevant to how one self-identifies and relates to an intimate partner.

At the same time, there are individuals who are "gender blind", who have a deep sense of bodily experience that informs their self-identity and partnership.

There are several variables in play in human identity.

The human spectrum includes both such individuals.

5) Genders aren't "Opposites" and Nonbinary individuals aren't a "Third Sex" or "Third Gender".

In some reallife cultures, nonbinary are thirdgender.

In the elven flag, an intersex person may identify as nonbinary, man, or woman. Only the individual can know who oneself is.



Note. Individuals are diverse.

For examples. There are masculine females who identify as a woman. There are masculine females who identify as a man. There are masculine females who identify as nonbinary.

Historically, culture often utilizes gender for organizational purposes. Nevertheless, the gender of an individual (which is probably genetic since it usually stabilizes by the time children are about three years old), is distinct from activities that a cultural community might assign to a gender.

And join Imaculata and Ungainly Titan in:
6) Elves should be more accepting of different identities and specifically have no need for codifying their identity with a series of colors that may change as they grow older because finding yourself is a journey.

The flag includes distinct identities, whether individuals within it are constant or fluid.