D&D General Creating a Pride Flag for my D&D setting

[Mercurius]

Regarding the fey elf setting:


In my view, the designers must make the D&D core rules as inclusive as possible from many different players to be able to enjoy.

At the same time, each setting needs to be flavorful with specific details.

Meanwhile, the DM might need to adapt a setting to the meet the enjoyment of the players at the table.

But the DM shouldnt need to waste time fighting against core rules. The core needs to be broadly inclusive.




Different cultures have different feelings about the use of culturally sacred heritage.

Generally, Nordic cultures like when other cultures have fun with Nordic heritage. But. It is important to avoid misrepresenting Nordic peoples. If one is riffing off from Nordic inspiration, it is important that the reinvention is clearly non-Norse.

For example, Norse views about elves inform my fey elf setting. But when I am actually referring to D&D eladrin, I never refer to these elves as if "Norse elves", despite the fact that people familiar with Nordic heritages would recognize some of these features.

Most prominent among the fey elves are the "sun elf" eladrin and the "moon elf" eladrin. But there are other eladrin cultures as well. The sun elves derive from Norse concepts, while the moon elves derive from Celtic concepts. These artistic licenses are D&D fantasy.




In the fey elf setting, elves can reproduce "naturally" via pregnancy, albeit additionally exchanging a drop of blood for conception.

But elves can also reproduce magically, via rituals, such as bringing a statue to life. Forming eggs whose children shapechange as dryads, can be one of these rituals.





In some ways elves are strictly nonhuman. They are manifestations of nature. The Norse-esque "sun elves" are literally the auras and beams of sunlight. This sun elf culture is solar and skyey. The Celtic-esque "moon elves" are literally the fertile soil. This elf culture is vegetative and earthy. There are other fey elf cultures and origins as well, including sea elves and shadar-kai.

When sunlight and soil project themselves into human or human-esque forms, they do so out of curiosity and fondness for humans. Ultimately, elves can shapechange into any form, but the term "elf" specifies the ones who enjoy being humanesque.

Shapechange is primordial to elven cultures. Unlike the fey changelings who shapechange spontaneously, the fey elves moreso shapechange as a community adapting to an environment.



Half-elves have been part of D&D traditions since its origins.

Where the parents of a half-elf assume cisgender heterosexual human and elf, people seem to assume this is "normal" and expected. I have never heard someone complain that half-elves are "too human".

But if there is objection to the possibility that some elf and human parents are transgender and homosexual, it feels like an attempt to silence these characters and their reallife players − by means of an inconsistent pretext that they are somehow not "alien" enough. Most D&D races are obviously humanlike.

Plus, the references to being manifestations of nature, reproducing via exchanges of blood, emphasizing shapeshifting, and prioritizing magic all help hint at the nonhuman origins.

Now hold your horses! There is no objection - I have no idea how you got that implication. But you're missing my point - and ignoring the "our world" part of the equation.

Ungainly Titan clarified my point well, although I think you could replace "too human" with "too much of our world."

I think that @Mercurius's point is that the business of cis/trans or other orientations of elves is something too human. And I would agree. The whole LGTBQ+ and the oppression that the Pride movement is struggling against is a result of purely human things.
A large part of which is the politics of inheritance, with some complications, the details are not really germane to the topic but are very human and rooted in the nature of humans. Also connected to the fact that child rearing in humans is a lifetime project. 20 to 30 years out of 70 odd.
Half elves raised as humans may start out as very human but after 100 years or so, I suspect they gain some perspective.

The key thing that I and I think elves that live to be 700 years plus and can raise children in 30 are going to any of our human hang-ups. They may have some completely different hang-ups.

So again, think in terms of a fantasy world, and a native species (elves), that lives for centuries, and probably have a very different history and culture to modern Western culture. You can create a backstory that justifies a pride flag and such if you want, but from a world-building perspective, it should make sense within the context of the world the elves live in, and the nature and culture of the elves. Otherwise you're just pasting things onto the fantasy world from our world, divorced from the context in which they arose, and it has the potential to come off as jarring and artificial.

For instance, maybe elves are naturally fluid in terms of gender identity and sexuality, but either they have received backlash from other races or they weren't always so. I'm simply saying that if you want the pride flag to make sense, it has to make sense in the context of the fantasy world and elves - at least if you want verisimilitude in your world-building.

 

[Blue Orange]

I mean, I'm only LGBTQIA in a very loose definition (heteroflexible grey-aromantic passing as straight), but seems to me you asked someone from the community for their opinion, they answered, and you didn't like it.

A culture that embraces gender-fluidity has no need for Pride. (If elves faced oppression from less fluid ancestries, it would probably be an elf pride festival as well!) Also even cultures with more than two genders tend to have taboos and rules around those genders as well.

Reading from the outside, seems like you really want to have a sex festival (which is fine IMHO, especially when cure disease is a thing and I assume there are contraceptive spells and potions) and are conflating it with Pride (which apparently people aren't so great on). And drop the genital bit...that's between the NPCs and each other. You seem to value being an ally, and that means listening to the people you're supposed to be in alliance with (I think?) So...why not have two festivals, as suggested?

I'll say that a lot of the official designations for the color stripes seem tacked-on after the fact--most of the flags seem to work from pink/red='feminine', blue='masculine', and go from there (purple was in the original bisexual flag and is red + blue, yellow is 'not red or blue' as one of the RYB primaries and thus shows up in the intersexual and pansexual flags where it specifically replaces purple to highlight pan is not binary, gray is 'not-X' because it's not a color, and then you add on purple and green for asexual and aromantic as other not-red-or-blue colors and so on). People have to be able to understand what you're trying to say with a nonverbal symbol like a flag.
Frankly, I think the designers of the original rainbow flag wanted to make something that was beautiful (the original had 8 stripes and didn't stick to primary and secondary colors) and would have positive associations, plus the idea of the rainbow as representing diversity (racial diversity in particular was a concern, and the rainbow was often used as a symbol for that). And, you know, it was a pretty successful piece of branding!

So...maybe the sex festival and the festival where they show pretty rainbows are separate festivals. Or something..

 

[Yaarel]

Not every elf is genderfluid. Some are strongly masculine, some are strongly feminine, and some are strongly genderqueer. Some are fluid among various genders. It depends on the individual (and the player playing the character).

The elves who enjoy the shapeshifting blessing of Corellon seem to be near the center of the anatomical spectrum. One might lean toward male or female secondary characteristics during an anatomical shapechange. They remain recognizably oneself.

The anatomy of other elves might exhibit pronounced male or female anatomical characteristics.



I was comparing the new Mordenkainens Monsters of the Multiverse with the earlier Mordenkainens Tome of Foes, to see how the designers are adapting the blessing of Corellon.

The Monsters of the Multiverse only mentions the eladrin in briefly, as an example among other fey creatures. That is fine for the nature of the book. But does any one know what will happen to eladrin lore that is in the Tome of Foes?

 

[Yaarel]

I mean, I'm only LGBTQIA in a very loose definition (heteroflexible grey-aromantic passing as straight), but seems to me you asked someone from the community for their opinion, they answered, and you didn't like it.

There is no single person who speaks on behalf of every LGBTQIA+.

This community is inherently a conversation among different perspectives. This diversity is good, valuable, and fruitful.

I take to heart where different perspectives are coming from. This thread is a project in progress. I havent implemented the flag in my setting yet. I am still sorting thru to find common ground.



From my own perspective. To use an analogy, the Rainbow Flag isnt about being a punk rocker as part of punk rock movement in rebellion.

The Rainbow Flag is explicitly about envisioning a better world, where everyone can be oneself, safely and well.

This aspect of the Flag is vital to me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don’t have a dog in this fight as to why or why not, but I have to say as a VISUAL DESIGN for a FLAG? Ummm, it could be better. Imagine seeing those from a distance.

Were I doing something like this, I might present the color wheel on a field of white for high contrast. Maybe a triangle, star or ring instead. Or ring of colorful stars or triangles

 

[Yaarel]

I don’t have a dog in this fight as to why or why not, but I have to say as a VISUAL DESIGN for a FLAG? Ummm, it could be better. Imagine seeing those from a distance.

Were I doing something like this, I might present the color wheel on a field of white for high contrast. Maybe a triangle, star or ring instead. Or ring of colorful stars or triangles

Forming the flag as a ring − a color wheel. That is a good idea. That still nods to its LGBTQ+ inspiration, but also makes its distinctive reuse clearer.

I will put together an update design.

 

[Blue Orange]

I don’t have a dog in this fight as to why or why not, but I have to say as a VISUAL DESIGN for a FLAG? Ummm, it could be better. Imagine seeing those from a distance.

Were I doing something like this, I might present the color wheel on a field of white for high contrast. Maybe a triangle, star or ring instead. Or ring of colorful stars or triangles

Flags usually use only a few bright colors, usually some variation of blue/white/red/yellow/green/black/white. Of course there's no reason elves couldn't be more colorful...or have colors human eyes can't see. A Voyage to Arcturus (and later the Carcosa OSR supplement) had jale, ulfire, and dolm, dolm being a compound of ulfire and blue.

Statistics on flag colors

 

[Faolyn]

Everyone participates in the festival activities and events.

With regard to seeking mates, the ace use the black color to clarify they are only interested in a romantic partner who can fall in love with each other, and not in a sexual relationship. The aro use the gray color to clarify they are only interested in a sexual relationship, and not a romantic one. The aro might still want a longterm intimate friendship, but it might be moreso "friends with benefits", rather than romance. Black and gray together means they are only interested in meeting new friends.

If elves are already in a relationship, they enjoy the festivities together, similar to Valentines Day.

I guess aroaces just stay home, yeah?

Edit: Actually, instead of having a whole flag thing, you might want to look into, well, things like the old handkerchief codes that gay men used back in the day. There's probably still variants on it today, but I wouldn't know; I'm one of those aroaces who stays home. Elves wear ribbons in their hair or face paint or charms on a belt chain or whatever that shows their interests, and that's how they do it.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Given it's a magical fantasy setting how a wand shooting rainbows. Or lesbian/bi Goddess of Joy Llirra's symbol. Or a Sword Crossing over with a chalice with a long stem. Entwined Snakes.

 

[Yaarel]

I guess aroaces just stay home, yeah?

Edit: Actually, instead of having a whole flag thing, you might want to look into, well, things like the old handkerchief codes that gay men used back in the day. There's probably still variants on it today, but I wouldn't know; I'm one of those aroaces who stays home.

I assume aroaces can have fun at a festival? Heh, even if they roll their eyes at other peoples obsessiveness? The festival is an opportunity to meet new people generally.

Elves wear ribbons in their hair or face paint or charms on a belt chain or whatever that shows their interests, and that's how they do it.

That is a good idea. I am still unsure where people display their personal colors. What about face paint for self-identity, and diadems (wreaths, ribbons, crowns) for interests?

Given it's a magical fantasy setting how a wand shooting rainbows. Or lesbian/bi Goddess of Joy Llirra's symbol. Or a Sword Crossing over with a chalice with a long stem. Entwined Snakes.

Presumably other symbols happen too.