Critique some [Force] based spells for me

[der_kluge]

One of the players IMC wants to make a Force-based sorcerer. He was looking for some variations of the following spells that were [Force] based. This is what I came up with:

(these are the original)
lesser fire orb
flaming sphere
fireball
meteor swarm
cone of cold

Firstly, I just created lesser Force orb. Didn't seem too powerful to me. It's just like Lesser Acid orb, etc (from Tome and Blood)

Lesser Force Orb
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V/s
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: Up to five creatures or objects, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell resistance: Yes

As lesser acid orb, except lesser force orb deals force damage.

Next, a flaming sphere variant:

Force Sphere
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 1-ft. diameter sphere
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates a perfect translucent sphere of pure force that hovers gently around the caster. The sphere is approximately 1-ft. in diameter and is difficult to see (spot DC 20) when at rest. As a move-equivalent action, the caster can fling the sphere towards a single opponent (one for each move-equivalent action). The target gets a reflex save to avoid being struck by the fast-moving sphere. A failed save results in 2d8 points of damage. The sphere can move up to its maximum distance each move-equivalent action in which it is hurled. After attacking, it moves back to the caster, and is stationary. The sphere can not be attacked, or deflected (though it can not penetrate walls or doors). The sphere can not target inanimate objects.

(fireball variant)
Force Burst
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V,S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 10-ft. radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A force burst spell is a burst of pure force that explodes dealing 1d8 points of force damage per caster level (maximum 10d8). This damage can either be real damage, or subdual damage, if the caster desires. The caster can unerringly target any location that he can see within the range of the spell.

(meteor swarm variant)
Force Swarm
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Pattern of force burst-like spreads (see text)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None of Reflex half (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

As meteor swarm, you can create 4 large (2-ft. diameter) or 8 small (1-ft. diameter) spheres that appear in the air and streak towards the designated targets. Unlike meteor swarms, these spheres can go around corners no greater than 90-degrees when striking. But all targets must be visible to the caster.
The spheres can go around obstacles (such as creatures) that might stand in the way of their intended targets.
Each large sphere deals 6d8 points of force damage. Each of these spheres can target specific impact areas, or they can overlap. Overlapping spheres cause increased damage to those suffering the effects of each sphere. Additionally, each sphere can target the same area, dealing 248 points of force damage in its area. Each large sphere has a 15-ft. radius spread.
Likewise, the smaller spheres can target specific areas and have a 10-ft. radius spread. Each deals 3d8 points of force damage.
For both large and small spheres, the damage dealt can be designated as subdual damage.
Creatures caught in the blast area can attempt reflex saves for half damage. Creatures struck by multiple blasts save against each blast separately.


(cone of cold variant)
Cone of Force
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V,S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Cone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Cone of force creates an area of force originating at your hand and extending outward in a cone. All within the area are subject to extreme force, and take 1d8 damage per caster level (maximum 10d8).
In addition, the force affect acts as a bull-rush attempt against all opponents in the area. Each target within the cone must succeed at a bull-rush attempt against a strength check of 24 (+7 modifier). Additionally, the caster can add their primary attribute (Intelligence or Charisma) to this attempt.
As per the bull-rush rules, each target can be pushed back a distance equal to 5-ft. with an additional 1 foot per exceeded strength check result.


Critiques welcomed...

 

[Crothian]

There's a force mage written up some place, but I can't recall where I saw it.

The big problem I have with the spells is that they are all a little better then the spell they are based one. d8s instead of d6s and force is more powerful then say fire. I don't have a good solution, as boosting the spell level seems a little much. It just seems a tad too good though.

 

[der_kluge]

Yes, but I decreased the radiuses.

 

[Crothian]

Sorry, I didn't notice that. Okay, that seems okay then.

 

[Arc]

Yeah. If he starts taking War Wizard of Cormyr or something, you might have a problem (enlarging like crazy), but otherwise, area for these spells seems to balance em out.

 

[Technik4]

I know a lot of people would agree that just changing the damage types (without raising the spell's damage by +10 or +24 which is essentially what raising d6 to d8 does) to force should be a level increase (or 2). Restricting the areas may balance forceball and force swarm, but force sphere is too good. It has the same utility as Flaming Sphere except it cannot be doused, does on avg 2 more damage, and can be used twice per round (Flaming Sphere says that after it has moved for a round, it stops).

Force Cone seems well balanced as you reduced the dice cap.

Remember that force has few weaknesses and can get around a lot of pesky elemental resistances, immunities, and sub-types.

Also force mages inherently get some nice high level spells elementalists don't - force sphere for instance.

Technik

 

[der_kluge]

There were a couple of things that force sphere didn't do that flaming sphere did. Firstly, it doesn't catch things on fire, and secondly it doesn't continue to damage creatures round after round. I mean, flaming sphere can be nice because you can just roll it into an area, and forget about it, and will continue to damage things in it's area for its duration. I also decreased the range from medium to close. So even though a flaming sphere only rolls at speed 30, it has the potential go up to 100-ft. +10-ft./level away.

Force sphere is superior in ways in which you pointed out, you can attack with it up to twice per round (though if you flee, you can't attack with it at all), and it does slightly more damage. Plus, the obvious - it's force damage.

In general, I think flaming sphere is too weak.

A 5th level caster could get more bang for his buck casting magic missile than flaming sphere (3d4+3, versus 2d6), plus he can't miss with magic missile. Most creatures aren't simply going to stand there and let a flaming sphere damage them every round, either. I see force sphere as a slightly upgraded version of magic missile.

 

[Angcuru]

In general, I think flaming sphere is too weak.

A 5th level caster could get more bang for his buck casting magic missile than flaming sphere (3d4+3, versus 2d6), plus he can't miss with magic missile. Most creatures aren't simply going to stand there and let a flaming sphere damage them every round, either. I see force sphere as a slightly upgraded version of magic missile.

You seem to forget that casting flaming sphere only costs one spell slot, and can be used for a few rounds after that. If you were to use those magic missiles, you'd be using up your spells a lot faster.

 

[der_kluge]

I guess when you put it like that, you're probably right. I suppose as is, a caster could expend 1 2nd level spell slot, and sit back and pelt targets, 2 a round, with 2d8 points of damage. Yea, that's pretty vicious.

Magic missile damage of 1d4+1 would probably be more appropriate, wouldn't it?

 

[Technik4]

That sounds more like force missile. Don't forget, you get a lot more than 1 chance at 2d6 with Flaming Sphere. A crafty wizard of mine used it for a very long time (After getting Wiz3 he multid to Rogue for 3 levels...). The only problem was, we misread the rule and always treated it as "2d6 Reflex for Half damage". You can move it after you cast it, so for a move-equivelent you can cast a spell and move the Flaming Sphere in the same round. I would often cast flaming sphere first, then next round move the flaming sphere and cast magic missile, then on the 3rd round (last round of sphere for a Wiz3) cast another Flaming Sphere and move the other one.

1st Round - 2d6 fire
2nd Round - 2d6 fire + 2d4+2 MM
3rd Round - 4d6 fire

It was great damage and I didn't even use haste! Your force sphere is so good that you don't even need to cast a second one, 2 move-equivs are twice as powerful. If you want to do it like that, I would make it so you can use it 1/round as a move equivelent. If you want to move it more, you have to use your iterative attacks to get more "attacks", after all you are flinging the sphere, not just directing it.

Technik