D&D 5E D&D 5e is fantastic. Just a topic of appreciation and some forum analysis.

[Evenglare]

I've been reading the various topics on these boards and I saw one topic about how the developers don't come here much anymore or at least if they do, they lurk and keep their involvement minimal. I certainly can understand why. Most of the topics on this board are complaining. I'll own up to my fair share of them. I just want to try and bring this to the attention of everyone. I love the game. I love all editions of D&D, I started back in 2000 when I was in high school and I bought my first 3e books. I had no idea what kind of impact that would have on my life. Looking back it was probably one of the most influential decisions I have ever made. I'm sure many of you have a similar story be it from OD&D, AD&D, 2nd edition, 3rd, 3.5, 4e or maybe even 5e!

I absolutely love all RPGs in general. I'm sure most of you have a special section in your heart that belongs to D&D though, for whatever reason. This leads me into why I wanted to post this topic. We love D&D, and that love can be fierce. I'd wager that the overwhelming amount of perceived negativity in these topics come from a good place. We feel like D&D is a part of us, at least I do. It's not just a brand or a commodity that we can just passively throw away at some point. It's very close to us which brings to light the topics. I (and I hope most of you) want to see D&D do well. We want to keep the game alive. When we see fumbles or missteps relating to the brand we voice our opinions because it affects us and the whole industry as a whole.

We want to see D&D doing well and we want D&D to be the very best it can possibly be. One of my more recent topics is about why wizards is so terrible at offering digital support. Though it may seem like I'm trying to draw negativity out of the users, I assure you I am not. Maybe the closest analogy to this is being a parent who sees their child making the same mistakes over and over, in which case we want to draw attention to this and FIX the problem we believe is occurring. People argue over Mountain Dwarf Wizards, 15 minute work days, shortcomings of the Ranger Beastmaster class. All of these things are important to us because D&D is important to us. I'd be much more worried if the game WASN'T being talked about and just fading into obscurity.

There's also something else at play here and on every other forum like this. It's called a vocal minority and it's just about impossible to get around. People post on forums like these because they want to bring attention to something they might not find agreeable. This spurs some passionate posts from the users. In all likely hood these are, in the grand scheme of things, small problems compared to the amount of fans that exist. No one comes to message boards to simply praise games. It's just a fact these days. Those kinds of posts drop quickly off the boards because there's no spur for discussion, the most common reply would be something like "I like the game too". You can't really build off of that. It doesn't necessarily help the game in any meaningful way.

It is a shame that the praise posts go away quickly, this means that IF the devs come here they are not likely to see them. So I just wanted to say that I love D&D5e (and the others). I can't speak for everyone but, personally, my topics do come from the fact that I have such an intense bond with the game. So even if it sounds like I'm bashing Wizards for being stupid, this is not my intention. I post because I'm frustrated with their business decisions (PDFs) and want to know the cause of those decisions because I want to help in whatever way I can or at least just understand the reasoning.

In conclusion, D&D team you did a fantastic job with 5e. I can honestly say it's one of the best RPGs that has been produced so far. Keep up the great work, and know that even if the fanbase seems to be constantly crapping on the game and the company it's not because we hate the game but quite the opposite (I assume most other users feel the same).

 

[Hussar]

Excellent post.

Part of the issue though is that perception plays such a huge part in discussing apparent problems. Saying that I want digital tools is fine. No one can gainsay that. Saying that 5e will fail because of a lack of digital tools is a much tougher row to hoe.

It's the conflation of the two that causes issues imo.

 

[Celtavian]

The best praise the devs can get is in the sales numbers.

 

[Aurelio]

The best praise the devs can get is in the sales numbers.

I've heard that the 5e books are selling very well.

 

[wedgeski]

I like the game too.



Great post. I do get exhausted by the negativity around here but you're right, it's just in the nature of internet forums.

 

[transtemporal]

Yeah, good post. Remember that you can love a thing and still find parts of it annoying. Its just a matter of how you deal with that annoying part.

 

[Jester David]

Some of it is human nature. It's easier to complain and point out flaws.
Some of it is just the nature of discussion. If I post a thread saying "I love 5e" there's little that can be added other than a "me too!" And there's less reason to even make that post. So forum posts tend to be questions or people seeking solutions to problems, which are somewhat inherently negative. And lengthier discussions arise over... debates... which also tend to have a hue of negativity.

The edition is also new and there's a lot of bruised feelings over the changes. The wounds are still fresh.

 

[Reynard]

The best praise the devs can get is in the sales numbers.

That is only true of books they actually produce and sell, though, and even then it is incomplete information. That is why companies do market research and poll customers.

For example, let's say Princes of the Apocalypse sells really well (whatever metric that might be) for WotC. Without further information, WotC might not know what to do with those sales figures. Is it because the adventure is just that good? Is it because there is a lot of nostalgia for Temple of Elemental Evil? Is it because it was the only thing on sale that month? Did it sell well to Amazon and distributors but is still sitting in boxes in warehouses? It gives no information on whether the AP format is the preferred format, and it offers no real insight into whether the next one will sell just as well. All of those important bit of information come from someplace other than sales figures, and among those somplaces are discussion fora.

 

[JeffB]

Yep. As much as things like the current adventure support bug me, and keep me from investing fully in the game, I LOVE the game itself. Mearls and team did a bangup job on the system.


Now start pumping out small self contained adventures please or bring back Dungeon mag. I have been playing since 1978..I can only convert and play The Classics so many times, ya know?

 

[PeelSeel2]

Bang up Job for the D&D 5e team. It will be interesting to see where they take 5e. They are trying a new path. What that is, we do not know. We have gotten hints, but not much else. They have even eluded to the fact they are learning as they go. I hope it continues very successfully.

I love the fact, so far, their is not a splat book deluge. I hope they keep it that way.

I think for the first time in the history of D&D at WOTC, they have all the intellectual property of D&D under D&D. So they can measure D&D as a brand instead of as a role playing game. I think their path is trying to strengthen D&D as brand, across all lines.

 

[Reynard]

Yep. As much as things like the current adventure support bug me, and keep me from investing fully in the game, I LOVE the game itself. Mearls and team did a bangup job on the system.


Now start pumping out small self contained adventures please or bring back Dungeon mag. I have been playing since 1978..I can only convert and play The Classics so many times, ya know?

Or, failing that, launch an official method for 3rd party support in the form of adventures at least.

 

[neobolts]

I do hope those who might be devs look past the gadflies and see the positives of this community. The current edition is fantastic. The posts tend to tear the game apart, but "looking under the hood" is what forums like this are all about.

I'm surprised how much time I spend here discussing the marketing and future business plans of D&D, versus the inner working of the game itself. I understand why this happens. There a legacy with D&D where solvency, questionable design choices, and the overall health of the hobby are real concerns.

That said, every edition has had its strong points. And 5e draws on a number of them from previous editions. I'm really happy with the quality of this edition, and really feel like I had a voice via the playtests. 5e mechanics are solid yet do not wrestle for control with the storytelling, which is the ideal balance. I expect to get many years of play out of it.

 

[Raith5]

It is a shame that the praise posts go away quickly, this means that IF the devs come here they are not likely to see them. So I just wanted to say that I love D&D5e (and the others). I can't speak for everyone but, personally, my topics do come from the fact that I have such an intense bond with the game.

I agree with this sentiment but I dont see these forums as only being a place of passionate interjections. The expertise and informed perspectives on these forums is considerable and obviously diverse. Furthermore, I think it very important to have a place for critical discussion about the game and hobby and to see dissenting opinions developed.

 

[chibi graz'zt]

I joined EN world because of my love for D&D 5. I think Wizards has a runaway hit with 5e and Im looking forward to seeing it develop. I play other table-top games (including PF) but when I pick up my 5e books I feel a love for roleplaying that takes me back to my first years playing D&D, a feeling that no other rpg has done. This is a testament to the skill and hard work that Wizards put into this latest D&D. We need more of these kinds of posts on these forums.

 

[Gundan Shadeslinger]

We need more of these kinds of posts on these forums.

An honest question.

Why?

If you like the direction the game is going then happy days, but there is a significant section of the community that isn't. The core rules themselves have received much praise on these boards so giving further praise repeatedly really doesn't get anything done.

I know for a fact that Wizards employees do come to these boards to have a look and posters here also post on the Wizards site. If we have nothing but praise then they may think everything is all good and continue to give us very little product support. What's wrong with the game has always generated the most topics because it's important to pick out the problems and hope they get fixed.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Knowing the two constants:

1. No edition will please everyone
2. No edition will be a 100% perfect fit where every rule is loved for anyone

Then it seems clear that 5e is a huge success. I honestly don't know how they could make it a whole lot better for the masses. The things that I'd like see modified would end up taking away from other gamers things they like. So the core rules, and areas they listed as modifiable, is truly a really good job. The team does deserve some major kudos there.

 

[Nefzyflin]

I've always been a man of few words.

PHB 5/5... DMG 5/5... MM 5/5.

Not to say that some rules can't / shouldn't be tweaked. But the game as a whole is great.

Thank you WotC.

Nef

 

[TwoSix]

While I'm not 100% onboard with the design direction of 5e, I do believe the designers and developers did a great job at meeting the design goals they set for the game. 5e is a very enjoyable game, with fantastic presentation.

Most of the complaints around the game tend to for better communication, more adventure support, more setting support, and more mechanical support. Which pretty much boils down to "Get me more 5e, faster." Hard to view that as anything but complimentary to the game!

 

[Mallus]

I ran my first 5e session last week -- on Good Friday, while drinking red wine -- and it went very well. This was a restart of our old 4e campaign (with players than ran the gamut from 'I liked 4e' to 'can we play Red Box next?') and the PCs began at 9th level.

The first scene was a battle between 9 characters & NPCs averaging 9 class levels. I DM'ed it without a hitch while drinking. Said battle did not consume the bulk of the session time.

I'm really positive about 5e now that I'm using the finished product -- I was cool on the various iterations of playtest. The next test is trying to use parts of the famous mid-to-high-level AD&D tournament modules with an absolute minimum of conversion.

 

[Umbran]

Maybe the closest analogy to this is being a parent who sees their child making the same mistakes over and over, in which case we want to draw attention to this and FIX the problem we believe is occurring.

Yes, I think you are correct. And that's a problem. Why? Because in the parent-child relationship, you can generally count on the parent having greater life-experience and understanding of the world than the child. This eventually breaks down as the child gets older and grows up, of course, but the general statement is sound - the point is that the parent may actually know what they are talking about.

But here, we have a bunch of regular folks without real expertise or better information, trying to argue over what is best for a business. We *think* we are parental, and argue like we know what we are talking about, when that's highly questionable.

We could talk about it with a more proper level of doubt in our own assessments, but we don't.