D&D needs improvement

[Teflon Billy]

But this I gotta ask... who does acrobatics in full plate? Never seen a reference to this, anywhere.

It's accurate. I think it was Mentioned in GURPS 3rd edition, and GURPS--whatever you may beleive it's ther flaws are--is a rigorously researched product.

 

[Umbran]

I stated my opinion specifically as well, calling on specific game mechanics. I don't see how you can call a post a troll simply because it has a negative connotation.

Just so it is clear - the tone of indignation, the broad generalization that other opinions are not valid ("you must all agree"), the consistent negativity, and the lack of any constructive content in the post are all common traits of trolls.

If you walk into a bar dedicated to a local sports team and shout, "The local sport team stinks!" what kind of response do you expect, loving admiration?

If you'd like to refocus, and enter into discussions of whys and wherefores, you'll probably get much more constructive responses than you'll get with flat statements of opinion.

 

[Psion]

I'll bite.

In short -- the rules are far too complex. You must all agree with me to some extent,

No, we really all must not...

because I consistantly see threads here for "simple combat" or "simple stats" etc.

Sure. And you see people either arguing with them or recommending systems or changes that would suit their tastes better.

The flaw is simple: D&D is a class based system emulating a skill based system. Why create a class system with multiclassing, then introduce even more unbalancing prestige classes?

All assumptions of error in here are entirely your take. There is nothing implicitly wrong with class systems, multiclassing, or prestige classes.

The common excuse is "oh, but it's the DM's decision to include that stuff". But why should the players be limited?

The players should be limited because unlimited player choice is not a universally good choice when it comes to creating a satisfying gaming experience. Long held simplistic sensibilities on the issue notwithstanding.

(snip list of entirely subjective opinions)

That's nice. That means D&D is not what you want out of a game. It does not make the game inherently flawed. A hammer is a damn fine tool to have around the house. But say I want to remove an outlet cover... I go get a screwdriver, not beat the heck out of the outlet cover and then complain about what a lousy tool a hammer is.

I can think of several ways in which D&D could be improved. Turning it into a gritty simulation -- which you seem to want -- is not what I would call an improvement.


On the upside, at least you display better use of spelling and grammar than "A Silent Wail."

 

[Umbran]

Yeah I agree with my preposters.

That's.... preposterous!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Psion]

But this I gotta ask... who does acrobatics in full plate? Never seen a reference to this, anywhere.

Heh... this is an old carnard, based on an old argument against penalizing wizards for wearing armor, when there were certain RenFair type events when some of the performers did tumbles and rolls in plate armor.

Whatever the case, while they may have been doing tumbles and rolls, I doubt they were doing tricks on the balance beam. While someone may be able to do acrobatics in full plate, I am sure that wearing a large amount of stiff, weighty metal has to have some impact. They may do acrobatics, just not so well.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Maybe you should play another rpg.....D&D is what it is.

Sorry, but I find this to be a lame response. Why not simply try to fix the problems you see to make your game the game you want?

 

[Henry]

On the upside, at least you display better use of spelling and grammar than "A Silent Wail."

Shute up about teh hat! The hate of d202 is supreme! The game fails in justabout evry aspect!*




*Taking shots at the infamous rpg.net post, not Kashell!

 

[Psion]

Sorry, but I find this to be a lame response. Why not simply try to fix the problems you see to make your game the game you want?

That really depends on how far "the game you want" is from "D&D" compared to other games out there. If what you want out of the game is significantly different than D&D, it might be a lot less work to start closer to your goal with a game that fits your goals better.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I think True20 might be what you're looking for.

XP system - Arbitrary and needlessly complex. The DM should assign XP as he or she feels, not as the rules dictate. (In more rules-lawyer environments, such as Living Grayhawk, XP values are already planned in game write-ups so why have such a complex system??).

In True20, you level up when your GM decides you should. No XP.

Hit Points - Soldiers and adventurers in real life stop fighting after they're wounded --not after they keel over and die. It makes no sense that a fighter should have 300 HP and only feel hurt after getting down to zero.

In True20, you have a Toughness save instead of hit points, and failing a save by enough means you're shaken (-2 to attack and skill rolls) until you are healed. A high-level fighter still has to watch out if he's surrounded by a mob of low-levels.

Hit Dice - Just because I'm a Barbarian, and you're a wizard, I have three times the amount of life as you. What?

In True20, Toughness save is Con+armor. If the wizard has a good Con, he'll be about on par.

AC - I'm wearing a ton of armor, therefore you can't hit me.

In True20, armor only adds to your Toughness save, that is, how well you resist being injured. It has no bearing on how hard you are to hit.

Initiative - I'm more flexible / faster than you, therefore I'm always the first one to react in situations. (It would make more sense if initiative was based on wisdom -- skills like listen and spot.)

Alright, you got me. True uses Dex as well, though I think I'm going to switch to Wis now, to give it something other than Will saves.

Strength Adds to HIT - I'm strong, therefore I aim well.
Dexterity Adds to HIT only if I take a special feat (or ranged) - I've got good hand eye coordination, but I don't have this ability, so I can't aim melee attacks.

In True20, Dex affects all attack rolls. Strength affects damage with melee weapons.

Platinum Pieces - Where in the heck did medevil soceities learn how to smelt platinum?!

I got nothing. Well, except for the fact that True20 uses an abstracted Wealth system rather than individual gold piece accouting.

Two Weapon Fighting - Historically speaking, two weapon fighting was another method of defense, just like using a shield. It was also employed as a method of disarming opponents and confusing enemies. But never was it used as blatantly attacking an opponent like one would do with two fists. Drittz did it, therefore I can too.

Two weapon fighting has always been about emulating a swashbuckling feel, not realism. True20's TWF is much the same as D&D3.5's, except you can always move and attack with your two weapons.

Bard - What the heck were they thinking?
Druid - nature boys are suddenly religious too?
Wizard/Sorcerer - FAFS (Familiers are free stats)

True20 doesn't have specific classes, just roles: Warrior, Expert, Adept. Pick the role you want, and all class abilities are feats. Completely customizable.

Listen and Spot - Why isn't this one "sense" skill?
Climb, Run, Swim, Jump, etc - Why isn't this one "athletics" skill?
Move Silently, Hide - Why aren't these a "stealth" skill?
Tumble, balance, etc - Why aren't these an "acrobatics" skill?

I believe all of these changes exist in True20. Except your "sense" is called "Notice".

Full Plate - -6 Armor check penalty? And Full Plate is one size fits all? +1 max dex bonus? Last time I checked, all full plate must be custom made to fit a specific body type, and because the plates work so well together, people can do acrobatics while in full plate.

Even in D&D, fullplate has to be custom-made for the individual. True20's fullplate is similar, except that you don't lose any movement.

Shields - Wow, if I didn't know better, shields are worthless. Wonder why the Romans sent full armies into battle with full tower shields and did just fine with little or no armor?

In True20, shields add directly to your defense. Having a shield is one of the few ways to significantly increase your AC.

Attacks of Opportunity - My enemy is suddenly able to attack (again) because I did something.

True20 doesn't have AoOs. If you want to hit someone because they do something, ready an action.

Multiple attacks - I move, therefore I attack only once per round.

True20 characters only have one attack a round, unless they're using TWF.

Multiple attackers - two hundred bears attempt to jump on an adventurer. None of them are able to hit him, because his AC is obviously, too high.

True20 does feature an AC system that rises slightly as the PCs increase in level. But because Toughness saves don't really scale, two hundred bears is a serious problem.

I know I didn't address everything, but it really seems like you'd be better served by the True20 rules set.

 

[Piratecat]

Sorry, but I find this to be a lame response. Why not simply try to fix the problems you see to make your game the game you want?

Because some games fundamentaly do a better job at matching the rules in your head. And in my experience, it's often substantially more difficult to find players for heavily house-ruled games.

I'm no D&D purist. Like many of us, I own twenty or thirty different RPGs. I actually play the ones that are fun. I can't imagine myself being involved in a campaign with a rules system that I didn't care for, especially if there are games out there that did give me a ruleset and feel that I really wanted.

In other words, if I'm frustrated that I can't make my Call of Cthulhu game play like Paranoia, I'm not going to go to a CoC forum to say that it sucks; I'll just propose to my group that we switch games.