reelo
Hero
The "RPG" in CRPGs like Diablo is misleading. I'd qualify Diablo as an isometric 3rd-person shooter with a fantasy setting, nothing more.
D&D General D&D without resource management
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
overgeeked
B/X Known World
In that sense, 4E was the best dungeon crawler version of D&D as it was a skirmish game with RPG elements tacked on. But I'm not talking about the video game version of dungeon crawlers, rather the tabletop RPG version.
Sure. I was just saying.
On the upside, the popularity of games like Old School Essentials and the OSR movement in general, particularly with millenials, suggests it is possible to get some of that dungeon crawler back in modern D&D. There's obviously a market for it.
Celebrim
Legend
In the computer industry, if it has the elements of an RPG but didn't have a complex inventory to manage, it typically was considered "An Adventure Game"
On the question of is Diablo an RPG, it is if you consider figuring out what treasures to put in your backpack to maximize the value you get out of your dungeon run more quintessentially an RPG than having a soap opera with NPCs. I'm not judging if that is wrong or right, just saying that based on what is called an RPG historically, it might be that a backpack with limited space in it to utilize is more essential being an RPG than dialogue.
Think about the game play experience of Nethack. World of Warcraft. Skyrim. Mass Effect. Mass Effect is particularly interesting in that after the first title you had much less resource management both Chargen resources and inventory, and the later titles were much less like RPGs.
I think "RPG elements" is today used more to cover things like skill trees than resource management.
I don't see as the computer industry should be considered authoritative on TTRPG classification.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I’m talking about tabletop RPGs. Stuff like FATE, WoD and CofD, PbtA, Dread… Inventory management is central to a certain style of RPG, certainly, and one I happen to enjoy a great deal. But there’s a lot more on offer than just that style of play.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
Definitely a market for it, I'm just not convinced WotC has any interest in pursuing that market. At best they'll leave it for 3PP to handle, as they have done for the last...however long.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Or rather the exact opposite.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
by that logic any game that has only non magic PCs (say a fighter and a rogue) aren't playing D&D
Clint_L
Hero
Setting hyperbole aside, D&D5e has the potential to be resource management heavy, or light, depending on how you run it. It has the potential to be exploration heavy or light, depending on how you run it. It has the potential to be combat heavy or light. Story heavy or light.
It's a great rule set. There are other great rule sets, too. This one leans more towards resource management, though not quite to the extreme of say, Pathfinder, or Call of Cthulhu. At the opposite end of the spectrum you have games like Dread and Fiasco. There is room for lots of approaches.
What I take OP to be asking is "is resource management a defining feature of D&D?". In other words, could you have zero resource management and still recognize what you are doing as D&D? I would argue not. Ultimately, I think hit points, spell slots, and combat rounds with resources such as movement and actions are defining characteristics of the game. Other resources, like inventory, are not essential, but those basic resources are part of what make D&D, D&D.
Edit: RPG is a much more general term, and I think the defining feature is literally in the name: role playing game. It has to have a story in which the player is an active participant. It definitely does not require resource management; there are plenty of RPGs that do not.
It's a great rule set. There are other great rule sets, too. This one leans more towards resource management, though not quite to the extreme of say, Pathfinder, or Call of Cthulhu. At the opposite end of the spectrum you have games like Dread and Fiasco. There is room for lots of approaches.
What I take OP to be asking is "is resource management a defining feature of D&D?". In other words, could you have zero resource management and still recognize what you are doing as D&D? I would argue not. Ultimately, I think hit points, spell slots, and combat rounds with resources such as movement and actions are defining characteristics of the game. Other resources, like inventory, are not essential, but those basic resources are part of what make D&D, D&D.
Edit: RPG is a much more general term, and I think the defining feature is literally in the name: role playing game. It has to have a story in which the player is an active participant. It definitely does not require resource management; there are plenty of RPGs that do not.
Vaalingrade
Legend
~Cast light, has dark or low-light vision, enjoys not having to pretend to care about torches.~
Vaalingrade
Legend
Except it really would be improved by dint of not having arrow counting and Vancian magic in.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
It feels like the game has been trending in that direction for a while now. Cantrips were just the beginning; I know DMs who ignore ammunition, carrying capacity, even the number of hours in a day. It's only a matter of time until class features and spellcasting follows suit.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
i hope so
Celebrim
Legend
For the record, I actually consider the essential element of RPG to be role-play.
But that said, there are games that have role-play that I don't consider to be RPGs - for example, theater games or story-telling games or a child's game of "make-believe".
But I do think that it is interesting how what is essential to an RPG translates out of the tRPG experience into other formats. For example, I'm currently playing Star Wars: Fallen Order which has storytelling, a skill tree, and a somewhat open world with monsters to fight and puzzles to solve. But I wouldn't classify it in any fashion as an RPG, whereas if it had meaningful resource management, I mentally probably would characterize it as an RPG. And I don't think I'm alone in that, so there has to be something going on here.
Clint_L
Hero
I ignore those things unless there is a compelling story reason for them to matter.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
i built a roll off make spells on the fly system similar to M:tA from white wolf for both 2e and 3e by taking the spell seeds from high level campaigns/epic level handbook and working out the DCs/Target Numbers for a handful of spells... then I let the caster class I made get X number of seeds to start and more every Y levels...
I then DID have a resource management though with a mana system that lowered DCs and you got mana back at a X/ten minute rate where X was governed by your level.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
by that logic, apparently fighters and rogues don't have hit points
I think we're talking about two different things: 1) inventory management of stuff like torches, arrows, etc, and 2) the per rest abilities. You can choose to bring 1 torch or 10 torches into the dungeon, so the calculation comes in preparing for the adventure, whereas with per rest abilities you only get a pre set amount, and the only way to control that is by resting, hence the 5 minute work day.
- Basic dnd (i.e. bx and becmi) has very few per rest abilities--mostly just spells. Even hp don't totally reset on a long rest. And resting mid-adventure is dangerous, and will cause you to use more of your limited torches and arrows. Most of a class features (finding secret doors, infravision, etc) is available at level 1. Everything else you get with leveling are static increases (to hp, saves, etc) and what would now be called "ribbon" abilities.
- Some OSR games, like Knave and Mausritter, handle spells by converting them to inventory. Like in Mausritter, a spell is a little tablet that you hold in your hand and has the possibility of being exhausted after you use it.
- Whitehack assigns a hp cost to spells. So spells don't have an inherent level, but they can have a minor or major effect depending on how many hp you use to cast them. Spellcasters heal a bit faster than other classes to balance this.
- Basic dnd (i.e. bx and becmi) has very few per rest abilities--mostly just spells. Even hp don't totally reset on a long rest. And resting mid-adventure is dangerous, and will cause you to use more of your limited torches and arrows. Most of a class features (finding secret doors, infravision, etc) is available at level 1. Everything else you get with leveling are static increases (to hp, saves, etc) and what would now be called "ribbon" abilities.
- Some OSR games, like Knave and Mausritter, handle spells by converting them to inventory. Like in Mausritter, a spell is a little tablet that you hold in your hand and has the possibility of being exhausted after you use it.
- Whitehack assigns a hp cost to spells. So spells don't have an inherent level, but they can have a minor or major effect depending on how many hp you use to cast them. Spellcasters heal a bit faster than other classes to balance this.
Similar Threads
