d20 backlash??

[Henry]

There are hordes of rules light games out there? Out where? :\

In print? Feng Shui, White Wolf's entire line, Buffy/Angel/Unknown Armies, Tri-stat, D6, Savage Worlds, Risus, Cartoon Action Hour, Paranoia XP, Scared Stiff, Fudge, Fuzion, and Call of Cthulhu, to name a few fromthe RPG Database at www.pen-paper.net . All of these are at the very least simpler than 3E, GURPS, or HERO.

Games still played? Too many to count. Though pen-paper.net has the details.

 

[Toben the Many]

There are hordes of rules light games out there? Out where? :\

Most games out there that are not d20 are rules-lite.

Now, before I go on, keep in mind that when I say "rules-lite system" I am speaking in relative terms. All roleplaying games need to have sophisticated rules because they are trying to simulate real-life situations through dice rolls. The moment you try to translate throwing a punch into the rolling of a die, you get complicated.

At the same time, there are systems that are definately "rules-lite." These systems leave alot of what happens to the DM's discretion. By contrast, d20 has as little as possible left up to intrepretation. Here are a few games that I think are heavy on interpretation:

White Wolf's storyteller is pretty rules-lite. One roll determines whether you hit and how much damage you do. Armor has one stat makes you harder to hit and reduces the damage you take. Weapons have one stat that make it more likely that you will hit and do more damage.

Deadlands is a rules lite system. Yes. I said Deadlands. Again, much of what happens in Deadlands is left up to interpretion. Especially with Mad Scientists.

One of my favorites: Little Fears. Very rules lite.

I consider Mutants and Masterminds rules-lite. Sure, it's got a complex rule-set, but the overall system is incredibly simple. I hit you. You either get knocked out or you stay on your feet. Trying to destroy a helicopter is just as easy to understand as destroying a wall. An energy blast, a shuriken, or a missle can all do the same amount of damage. All of them can be resisted in the same way. You have a putty body like Mr. Fantastic, or a rock body like the Thing, but either way your strange body protects you in the same way.

 

[Akrasia]

In print? Feng Shui, White Wolf's entire line, Buffy/Angel/Unknown Armies, Tri-stat, D6, Savage Worlds, Risus, Cartoon Action Hour, Paranoia XP, Scared Stiff, Fudge, Fuzion, and Call of Cthulhu, to name a few fromthe RPG Database at www.pen-paper.net . All of these are at the very least simpler than 3E, GURPS, or HERO.
...

Okay, I guess I did not interpret 'rules light' to mean just 'simpler than 3E'.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Okay, I guess I did not interpret 'rules light' to mean just 'simpler than 3E'.

Then what's rules lite to you? Amber?

 

[Aaron2]

The best way to increase sales is to create buzz and the best way to create buzz is by releasing a new version. That's kinda hard if you are making a d20 game since you rely on WotC to decide when you do a new version and then you do yours at the exact same time everyone else does.

Creating a new version with different rules is pretty typical of RPGs. The number of games that lasted* 10+ years without a new core rulebook are pretty small in number.


Aaron

*by "lasted" I mean, stayed in print with supplements printed regularly.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Then what's rules lite to you? Amber?

Duh! C&C. Didn't you know that it's the absolute best thing since sliced gelatinous cubes?

 

[Hand of Evil]

I read these post and say to myself "How much things stay the same".

People play D&D, it is the common rule set, by using the d20 rule set other games will be played by people that would not play them otherwise, selling a product under the d20 logo ensures your product will at least be looked at by the greatest market share, you could even be lucky enought that it helps your non-d20 games. This d20 backlash/bubble myth is the niche market, RuneQuest is better than D&D, DragonQuest is better than D&D, WFRP is better than D&D, Earthdawn is better than D&D, HERO is a better game than D&D, on and on and on but you know what? Most gamers DO NOT CARE, they will only buy WoTC products, it is a small percentage that go outside to the non-d20 games and then you know what happens when they try to run it, they find out no one wants to play it, they all know the D&D rules so they go back to playing D&D.

29 years it has been that way.

Just a rant for a few.

 

[Gundark]

Hmmm, good discussion. I do understand a d20 slowdown. I notice that at my lgs several d20 books haven't moved. People mentioned less overall d20 products but wotc is claiming that their sales are going up. So it could be not a slowdown but instead more focused (wotc stuff moves pretty good at my lgs.) What does that left other parties that publish d20? Well then they would try putting out products for their own rules. Anyhow the reason I play d20 is it's a decent system and it can handle the types of settings that I am interested in. It's nice to be able to see a game that I would be interested in playing and not have to learn a whole new set of rules.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Duh! C&C. Didn't you know that it's the absolute best thing since sliced gelatinous cubes?

Its true....
sliced gelatinous cubes *ARE* the best.

 

[Desdichado]

double post