Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Reynard]

No, I think I'll just reject any advice of yours since you see things in the rules I do not, and have an aggressive anti-player streak in your advice.

If you say so.

 

[zakael19]

It's great if your GM uses forced actions. Otherwise, it's little use; in DH core, only for the forced movement effect resistance rolls triggered by certain Adversary abilities. Not totally worthless, but not a mechanically good choice.

I'd much rather see the player revise it into a more broad "Strong Willed" — which has non-resist effects. Or, as one player chose, "Relentless." That one was weak, and the player and I agree it can't be used as a first strike... he only uses it when his character is wounded or defending another against long odds. Unfortunately, the point where it storywise fits best is when it's unavailable - when all hope is lost.

Given the low number of experiences, I want them broad, and for players to have both offensive and defensive use for each.

Courtly was used in a social vs a Minor Noble this session; only its second use, but in both cases, it just happened to be just enough for success...

Huh? Stuff like "Never back down" is amazing for social situations, for dealing with conditions, for facing risky circumstances and persevering. There's lots of examples in the book just like it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I’d bet a starter set is in the works. I wonder what that’ll look like?

My guess is that there won't be one but two. A nice lavish deluxe one with pre-written maps and cardboard pawns - and a cheap 78 card (i.e. tarot deck) sized deck of cards with customisable level 1 pregens, wipe clean cards, and low level only. Possibly bundled with a dice set and pen that wipes off the cards.

 

[Faolyn]

Those exemplars are fine for Fate, where the negative aspect is compel-worthy, but never back down is something I'd challenge the player on in char gen/advancement, as being relatively irrelevant, given the lack of compels in general, even as reaction rolls.
(the rest isn't at Zakael)

The reason, IMO, a compell is a D«bleep»-move in DH to compel is because it robs the player of agency AND fails to reward them for that. That kind of agency loss violates the best practices of DH.

There could easily be a house rule where the GM can compel the PC by letting them use their experience for free.

I'm not sure that Never Back Down is something that would need to be compelled, though, or challenged in chargen. In the D&D game I'm in, my swashbuckler character has the Flaw of "can't say no to a challenge" and there's definitely no compels in D&D. When I feel like my character is being challenged or dared, I have her step up and take the bet. Presumably someone with Never Back Down would do the same, whether or not they actually pay Hope to use the experience.

 

[zakael19]

There could easily be a house rule where the GM can compel the PC by letting them use their experience for free.

I'm not sure that Never Back Down is something that would need to be compelled, though, or challenged in chargen. In the D&D game I'm in, my swashbuckler character has the Flaw of "can't say no to a challenge" and there's definitely no compels in D&D. When I feel like my character is being challenged or dared, I have her step up and take the bet. Presumably someone with Never Back Down would do the same, whether or not they actually pay Hope to use the experience.

Yeah, “he steps up and gets in your face all aggro like, you gonna let that lie?” is a core GM move of “ask [provocative] questions.” Daggerheart thrives on pushing the players into actions with dramatic moments, leaning into the brief background items they’ve defined (class/ancestry/community/experience/questions).

 

[zakael19]

Had our first session of my modern urban fantasy frame. So fun, the characters are all filling out so well and the dynamics shaking out are hilarious. We started with a pretty light-hearted opener, a very much "oh you all are the b-team, here's a lost pet problem (a wizard's pet cockatrice of course - seagull head, eyes like glowing red stoplights, body covered in roof shingle like scales)" which they did some quick thinking and clever ability use to not fully aggravate and capture and return instead.

With that as the opener, jumped into the far more fraught first File - a more classic urban fantasy style mystery/investigation thing. I've worked to try and port over The Between's Questions + Opportunities / Clues / Formulate an Answer" structure, so far the players really liked their first exposure to the Clue Action.

Action: When you conduct research, gather information, or otherwise pursue leads for a File say how you intend to do so and the GM will call for an appropriate ability. This can be a Group Action (eg: examining a scene, studying books in a library together) or individual Action. The Difficulty will scale by Tier (13/15/17/20), and can have Advantage or Disadvantage applied depending on the fictional situation.
On a success or failure with Hope, you find a Clue.
On a success with Fear or failure with Hope, there’s a complication - either with the situation or the Clue. On a Failure with Hope it's more likely that to use the Clue will require something costly, difficult, or further work.
On a Critical, you further find a Clue to the True Threat facing the City.
On a failure with Fear, things turn complicated fast.

And my draft of the "Answer" Action:

When you feel like you’ve gathered sufficient Clues (at least half of the Question’s complexity) to formulate a Theory about the Threat, you may conduct a discussion about what that answer might be. Once you reach a consensus on the Theory, choose a player to make a Theorize roll. This is a Duality dice roll with unique modifiers: you will add the number of Clues you have incorporated into the Theory or explained away, minus the Complexity. The Difficulty is always 13.
On a success with Hope, the theory is correct and you can pursue an Opportunity.
On a success with Fear, there’s a complication - either with the theory, or pursuing the Opportunity will be more dangerous.
On a failure with Hope, the theory is incorrect but a connection is made that reveals a new Clue for a different Question.
On a failure with Fear, the answer is incorrect and the GM makes a move.
On a Critical, the Architect of the True Threat will reveal themselves while the Keepers pursue this Opportunity.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I’ve played two separate games of DH and both times I had the warrior class (or whatever it is that lets you keep a card from one round to the next).

I’m having a difficult time figuring out how to use that. I’ve been swapping initiative cards with teammates so that I can go lower in the initiative and then keeping that card.

But I don’t think that’s always a great strategy. As noted, sometimes it’s better to wait to go later to see if an enemy misses you before you choose to attack or defend.

Does anyone have a general rule or strategy of how to best use initiative?

 

[Vael]

Had our first session of my modern urban fantasy frame. So fun, the characters are all filling out so well and the dynamics shaking out are hilarious. We started with a pretty light-hearted opener, a very much "oh you all are the b-team, here's a lost pet problem (a wizard's pet cockatrice of course - seagull head, eyes like glowing red stoplights, body covered in roof shingle like scales)" which they did some quick thinking and clever ability use to not fully aggravate and capture and return instead.

With that as the opener, jumped into the far more fraught first File - a more classic urban fantasy style mystery/investigation thing. I've worked to try and port over The Between's Questions + Opportunities / Clues / Formulate an Answer" structure, so far the players really liked their first exposure to the Clue Action.



And my draft of the "Answer" Action:

I really like the structure of this, reminds me of a more freeform version of Atomic Robo's brainstorming sessions.

 

[Thourne]

I’ve played two separate games of DH and both times I had the warrior class (or whatever it is that lets you keep a card from one round to the next).

I’m having a difficult time figuring out how to use that. I’ve been swapping initiative cards with teammates so that I can go lower in the initiative and then keeping that card.

But I don’t think that’s always a great strategy. As noted, sometimes it’s better to wait to go later to see if an enemy misses you before you choose to attack or defend.

Does anyone have a general rule or strategy of how to best use initiative?

Sorry I am confused by what you are describing. Daggerheart doesn't have initiative so I am lost.

 

[Thourne]

double post