D&D 5E (2014) Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Alzrius]

Why not just do another setting that won't cause a massive backlash and possibly open us up to litigation? Please?

Exactly what litigation do you think publishing Dark Sun would open WotC up to?

 

[Hussar]

Exactly what litigation do you think publishing Dark Sun would open WotC up to?

So much for trying to be a bit funny and inject a smidgeon of levity into the discussion. Should know better.

Nothing like taking a lengthy post, stripping out any context, ignoring every single point, in order to focus in on something that is very much not the point.

Let's ignore all the actual issues with trying to portray one of the most horrific things in history as something that's fun in our elf games.

 

[Alzrius]

So much for trying to be a bit funny and inject a smidgeon of levity into the discussion. Should know better.

Upon review, I can't imagine how I missed the levity in your post, particularly given your penchant for injecting humor into these discussions.

 

[king of the ceaders]

Well okay then. Howzabout we get back to the actual discussion then? I see that you found my description of trying to actually publish a Darksun source book to be workthy of a frowny face. Which part did you disagree with? Do you think that my interpretation of how things would go is somehow missing something?

See, this is the problem that @LuisCarlos17f seems to be ignoring. It's not that slavery is so difficult to talk about. It's really not. But, any depiction of slavery that isn't really clear is going to run afoul of the notion of whitewashing. See, we can largely use things like feudalism in the game because, by and large, feudalism wasn't a string of horrific crimes against humanity.

But including something like slavery in the game is like including genocide. That level of horror anyway. So, unless folks are also okay with depictions of individuals crushing the heads of babies against a tree, I'm thinking that any actual depiction of slavery should probably be off the table as well.

The level of hyperbole combined with the fear mongering rated the frown, DS is no more inappropriate than many other tropes and spells in D&D.

Just look at the last sentence of the post quoted in this one, you're not looking for a discussion, you are passing judgement.

 

[Hussar]

The level of hyperbole combined with the fear mongering rated the frown, DS is no more inappropriate than many other tropes and spells in D&D.

Just look at the last sentence of the post quoted in this one, you're not looking for a discussion, you are passing judgement.

What judgement? That slavery is one of the most horrific things in history? I don't think that's too much of a stretch. That slavery is equivalent to things like genocide in its level of horror? Again, I don't think that's a terribly unfair judgement.

But, ok, fair enough. How would you present it? How would you present slavery in Dark Sun in such a way that it's handled with sensitivity and gravity in our heroic fantasy game? What art would you use? Please, specifically detail how you would describe slavery and it's use in the game.

Everyone wants to wave this magic wand and say, "oh, it's not really problematic". It's easy. We'll just magically get WotC to thread that needle with ease and grace and we'll get that Dark Sun setting we all want.

So, let's see it. Let's see someone here step up to the plate and give a decent example of how you present slavery in D&D that would be acceptable to the publisher.

I'll wait.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Slavery does come up in a lot of the tabletop inspired CRPGs I've played lately, Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, the Owlcat Pathfinder games. From what I recall in all of these you can just straight up be pro slavery, and it's somehow not even the worst thing you can choose to do.

I don't think WoTC would or should go that route on a book, but a Dark Sun game could be cool.

 

[Hussar]

Look, the bottom line is that the question has been asked and answered repeatedly but for some reason, the answer never seems to sink in.

There is no upside for WotC here. No matter what they do they will both go too far and not far enough at the same time. Everyone will be pissed off no matter what.

You’ll get Dark Sun the same time I get a Warlord that gets through an Unearthed Arcana review with a 90% positive rating.

Some time shortly before the heat death of the universe.

 

[GrimCo]

To be fair, Divinity Original Sin is rated M(17+), Pillars of eternity is rated 16+, Patfinder Wrath of the righteous is 17+, only PF:Kingmaker is 13+.

So, it makes lot's of sense for DS to go that route, with 16/17+ rating, which is significant shift from baseline 2024 5e which is 12+.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What art would you use

This is the thing that would have certain people clutching at their pearls. Using a modern art style instead of Boris’s chainmail bikinis.

 

[GrimCo]

This is the thing that would have certain people clutching at their pearls. Using a modern art style instead of Boris’s chainmail bikinis.

Brom's distinct art style is half of DS's appeal. It's iconic, evocative and it fits the mood of the setting. Chainmail bikini's weren't really his style. He did blend horror and gothic with fantasy thou.