D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Hussar]

That last paragraph pretty much hits it on the head for me.

If a setting would make you uncomfortable to play with anyone who doesn’t look like you, that’s a huge warning sign that there’s probably something very wrong with the setting.

 

[Raduin711]

That last paragraph pretty much hits it on the head for me.

If a setting would make you uncomfortable to play with anyone who doesn’t look like you, that’s a huge warning sign that there’s probably something very wrong with the setting.

One could argue that the problem is with me, or with the player, but I think that would be ignoring some of the cultural complexities that we live with. D&D is not played in a platonic world of forms. It is played in the real world with real people.

If a black person asked to play in my Dark Sun game with the usual Freedom entry point and we discussed it and everyone gave the okay, then maybe, but it would still be really uncomfortable for me. I would be thinking "Are we SERIOUSLY doing this?" the whole time. This setting was not written with a diverse player base in mind.

 

[AnotherGuy]

A while back I saw a tweet from a D&D influencer who is a PoC (I won't name them because there are certain folks who read this forum that might go after them) who basically asked "why would you want to WANT to roleplay slavery?"

And my first thought was "why not?" For many of the same reasons others have pointed out in this thread. I thought about replying, but I realized the question was meant as rhetorical. After sitting with the question for a while my conclusion was that for them, the idea of actually wanting to roleplay in a game as a slave is so foreign that they can't conceive of why anyone would want to do it. The generational trauma of slavery is still very real, following black people like an albatross. It's not just an intellectual exercise for them.

I hear you and thanks for your post. My question is are you saying PoC (in the USA) do not enjoy shows like Spartacus? I only ask this because that's the case you've made for them for RPGs that involve slavery.

EDIT: I realise the majority of posters are American but I'm not a fan of painting all PoC with one brush. A black person of France or of the UK and even most of Africa has a very different outlook to a black person in America who lives in a highly politicized environment.

 

[Raduin711]

I hear you and thanks for your post. My question is are you saying PoC (in the USA) do not enjoy shows like Spartacus? I only ask this because that's the case you've made for them for RPGs that involve slavery.

Can't say. I don't claim to be an expert on the feelings of PoC. However, I will point out that we have left the realm of roleplaying, which changes matters.

 

[Vaalingrade]

EDIT: I realise the majority of posters are American but I'm not a fan of painting all PoC with one brush. A black person of France or of the UK and even most of Africa has a very different outlook to a black person in America who lives in a highly politicized environment.

How much energy are we really willing to put in searching for some black people who are okay with slavery and how many are required to make a setting the revels in slavery by way of Howard okay?

 

[AnotherGuy]

How much energy are we really willing to put in searching for some black people who are okay with slavery and how many are required to make a setting the revels in slavery by way of Howard okay?

That "some" is doing some heavy lifting. I don't claim to know either way (and I don't believe you should either) as I've said elsewhere voices here and the voices at home are anecdotal. What I do know is that PoC are diverse and not the monolithic voice some people here seem to imply.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Other point, if the sorcerer-kings keeps the biotech, the life-shape craft... Shouldn't the industrial revolution started centuries ago? Then the most of the workers should have been replaced with machines. And almost all workers could work with special "exosuits".

And what about the evil genies, daos and efreeti? These would use slaves, and it is generic D&D.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That "some" is doing some heavy lifting. I don't claim to know either way (and I don't believe you should either) as I've said elsewhere voices here and the voices at home are anecdotal. What I do know is that PoC are diverse and not the monolith united voice some people here seem to imply.

But we're still just kind of grasping for PoC to use as a fig leaf for trivializing slavery.

We don't have to care what these people think if we can scrounge up a few to say it's okay.

 

[Raduin711]

How much energy are we really willing to put in searching for some black people who are okay with slavery and how many are required to make a setting the revels in slavery by way of Howard okay?

Additionally I might add that part of my point from earlier was that we can't lay all of the ownership of the discomfort at the feet of PoC. Part of that discomfort is mine and my feelings of playing the subjugator against a black player. even if they give the ok it still would feel icky doing it. I don't think I would be alone in that.

 

[Mind of tempest]

It would be better for them to use those elements in a new setting that adheres to the rules they've set for themselves.

then define them I ask for what is worthy in this object show me what matters I want you to say it.

Yes, it's probably not in WotC's best interests to do so. Fair enough.

As far as I can tell, however, the call in some quarters isn't so much for WotC themselves to publish new Dark Sun material as it is for WotC to open the setting up so other people can - legally - publish new material for it should they so desire (same goes for several other settings; Birthright and Mystara are two).

that is not happening this is not the 90's or 00's it would get out and be used to farm clicks and of course a stock fall, hasbro would not let them.