D&D 5E (2014) Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[The Firebird]

Literally 95% of the people on Earth agree that climate change is a thing. The very loud handful of people who say otherwise (and some of that is likely performative) WotC can just write off, the way that they produce other products that they know aren't meant for everyone (see the new Ravenloft novel).

I'm... doubtful that this is true. But even if it is, the 5% are pretty concentrated in North America and represent a big part of their consumer base.

I suspect it can be presented in a way that doesn't bother anyone, though.

 

[Scribe]

lol

If ecological destruction, forget everything else, is off the table because oh we may offend someone?

PLEASE Wizards, do not release what would be an embarrassing version of Dark Sun.

Jesus lol

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm... doubtful that this is true.

Expand your media diet. It's 100% true. The rest of the world looks at the US like a bunch of loonies.

But even if it is, the 5% are pretty concentrated in North America and represent a big part of their consumer base.

Again, more than 50% of all D&D players started with 5E. All of the angry grogs who decry the modern art, etc., are a small part of the customer base and many of them have not been customers in decades. No business is going to listen to a tiny handful of ex-customers and worry about what they want.

 

[Zardnaar]

lol

If ecological destruction, forget everything else, is off the table because oh we may offend someone?

PLEASE Wizards, do not release what would be an embarrassing version of Dark Sun.

Jesus lol

Well there's nothing in Darksun you wouldn't see in say a PG rated movie. PG13+ at most.

I think post BG3 oeopke are a lit less offended by what internet woukd indicate.

Here the broadcasting standards authority uses what a reasonable person woukd be offended by. Otherwise late at night. As I said it's PG13+ at most.

I woukd ignore tge internet tone down the worst of it eg Mul breeding program or whatever. Anti slavery stance woukd be easy enough to push, environment message is even more important now than 90's.

Just don't preach about any messaging. SKs are evil, Templar are evil, slavers are villains etc.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well there's nothing in Darksun you wouldn't see in say a PG rated movie. PG13+ at most.

I think post BG3 oeopke are a lit less offended by what internet woukd indicate.

Here the broadcasting standards authority uses what a reasonable person woukd be offended by. Otherwise late at night. As I said it's PG13+ at most.

I woukd ignore tge internet tone down the worst of it eg Mul breeding program or whatever. Anti slavery stance woukd be easy enough to push, environment message is even more important now than 90's.

Just don't preach about any messaging. SKs are evil, Templar are evil, slavers are villains etc.

Agreed. You can make the publisher stance clear without the public service message, and without much removal at all.

 

[ECMO3]

Literally 95% of the people on Earth agree that climate change is a thing.

I don't know what this has to do with what I said or with Darksun. I did not mention climate change at all in my post, to include in the part you quoted, and the environmental catastrophe on Athas due to the defilers and Sorcerer Kings does not have much, if anything, in common with IRL effects of climate change on earth.

To reiterate what I said:

"Further it is not just those objectively morally rehensible topics that are problems with dark sun, it is also the underlying messages on religion (aetheism causes society to fall) and the environment (people in power ruin the planet)"

95% of people may believe in climate change, and I think that number may even be low. But I don't think that 95% or even 20% of people believe those in power are systematically destroying the earth; and keep in mind in most democracies over 50% are voting to either put or keep those people in power.

 

[The Firebird]

Expand your media diet. It's 100% true. The rest of the world looks at the US like a bunch of loonies.

Respectfully, you don't know what sources I read, where I have lived, what I have exposure to. It's not that I think the US is representative...its that "literally 95% of people on Earth" is a very strong claim. I did a quick search and found 86% across 63 countries claimed. That seems more plausible, with the appropriate caveats about defining "belief" and surveying the entire world (not easy).

But the more important point is that the world is not WotC's market. Their primary audience is English speaking and they are a US company. If the US is full of loonies, those are their customers.

Again, more than 50% of all D&D players started with 5E. All of the angry grogs who decry the modern art, etc., are a small part of the customer base and many of them have not been customers in decades. No business is going to listen to a tiny handful of ex-customers and worry about what they want.

And, I am again doubtful that the only people who doubt climate change are a handful of angry ex customers. The last number I saw was 59% in the US, who both believe it is happening and understand it is caused by humans. There are more who ascribe it to... I'm not really sure what. The carbonate silicate cycle? I fear it's not well thought out.

Anyway, that leaves 40% of the US who aren't there, and I don't think WotC buyers are so unrepresentative as to make them a vanishing minority.

But it is largely beside the point...Mad Max managed it while only alienating a vanishingly small minority like you suggest. As long as it's not too egregious I think they are ok. But given their history with Strahd and Spelljammer not too egregious is perhaps a big ask.

 

[ECMO3]

All of the angry grogs who decry the modern art, etc.,

Stereotype much??? This guy destroying modern art this week does not look like an angry grog to me:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/climate-activist-throws-bright-pink-paint-on-glass-covering-picasso-painting-in-montreal-180986865/

While I am at it I will point out that I am not a boomer, but factually most boomers (aka grogs) grew up using far less resources and doing less harm to the environment than young people today. When boomers were children people in America dried their clothes with wind and solar power, they drank out of bottles that were recycled, they did not use grocery bags and bottles made of oil byproducts or wear clothing made of oil byproducts.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

Expand your media diet. It's 100% true. The rest of the world looks at the US like a bunch of loonies.

That's a pretty broad brush dipped in some questionable paint you're painting with, a consensus doesn't equal truth.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I guess PCs are allowed to buy slaves when the intention is to free them, this means to pay their rescue.

In the region of Tyr there is no slavery, only convicts convicted of crimes such as tax evasion. (Disclaimer, I was kidding)

Here the true key is not about somebody may feel offended but we have to remember the duty of respecting the human dignity. This is what separates us from fanatics and psychopaths. And let's recover the coherence because if we talk about the past then we can't tell sins from a side and forgeting wrong actions by others. That would be a double standards, like to use two different sticks to measure.

I suspect Hasbro is more interested into visual merchandising (posters, shirts, figures) of Dark Sun than selling more sourcebooks.

My theory is Dark Sun can be "updated" but the region of Tyr will be "almost cancelled". This means we only see some pages about the city-states and the monster stats of the sorcerer-kings but the rest will be crunch that could be used in your homemade setting

And it is not only the metaplot but the great effort for its special artistic style. I listened the artist Brom stopped working with TSR because he only did Dark Sun.

If I may feel unconfortable about slavery in my game is when serial abuses are happening in front of the character but the risks are too high to be stopped by the potential heroes. If abuses are showed in the story then the characters should enjoy enough opportunities to save the day. If the DM "punishes" the players who try to save innocents then here we can talk about somebody may feel unconfortable.

* Now I am imagining Rajaat like a dark lord whose domain is like Athas in the blue age. The trick is only halflings are wellcome, and almost always he is caged within a magic prison. One day each moon cycle he is free but he uses her temporal freedom to try to terminate the no-halflings and even those "tainted-blood" haflings.