D&D 5E (2014) Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

Is problematic content acceptable if obviously, explicitly evil and meant to be fought?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 251 90.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 28 10.0%

Dark Sun could be "played in the wrong way" but that is also possible with the rest of settings.
Yup.

Sacrilege, but we're currently running a 40K RPG (Wrath & Glory) in a "watered down" version of the setting where... good guys can actually win and things are not 100% grimdark all of the time.

A sentence that would cause a 40K fan to have an aneurism.
 

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A sentence that would cause a 40K fan to have an aneurism.
I mean, I dunno if I'm actually a 40K "fan" or merely someone who has huge knowledge of 40K lore, but personally I'd say that's actually, locally, absolutely fine for 40K!

Sometimes the "good guys" are good, and do win. It's just that it's always only in a specific place, at a specific time. I mean, there are actual "good guys" out there in 40K, it's just they're all smaller groups of larger factions which are not. I mean, on the whole, the Salamanders Space Marines are pretty good - they actively try to avoid civilian casualties, protect refugees, sacrifice themselves to prevent others having to die, aren't hateful fanatics towards xenos, and so on. But they're one Space Marine Legion among many, and one small force of thousands of people in an Imperium with trillions of combatants.

I'd say the people who that gives an aneurysm isn't actual 40K "fans" or lore experts or the like, it's the sort of 2000s through early 2010s-era very casual 40K "fan" who learned everything they knew about 40K from 1d4Chan or worse, actual 4Chan, and who thought the humourless, Imperium-centric, lore and vibes of 3/4/5/6E 40K was "the best", and is made confused and angry by 1E, 2E or 9E and later.

But your basic point is right - any game/setting can be played "wrong", for better or worse.
 

I mean, I dunno if I'm actually a 40K "fan" or merely someone who has huge knowledge of 40K lore, but personally I'd say that's actually, locally, absolutely fine for 40K!

Sometimes the "good guys" are good, and do win. It's just that it's always only in a specific place, at a specific time. I mean, there are actual "good guys" out there in 40K, it's just they're all smaller groups of larger factions which are not. I mean, on the whole, the Salamanders Space Marines are pretty good - they actively try to avoid civilian casualties, protect refugees, sacrifice themselves to prevent others having to die, aren't hateful fanatics towards xenos, and so on. But they're one Space Marine Legion among many, and one small force of thousands of people in an Imperium with trillions of combatants.

I'd say the people who that gives an aneurysm isn't actual 40K "fans" or lore experts or the like, it's the sort of 2000s through early 2010s-era very casual 40K "fan" who learned everything they knew about 40K from 1d4Chan or worse, actual 4Chan, and who thought the humourless, Imperium-centric, lore and vibes of 3/4/5/6E 40K was "the best", and is made confused and angry by 1E, 2E or 9E and later.

But your basic point is right - any game/setting can be played "wrong", for better or worse.

I'll second this.

Most of the ultra-hardcore grim dark uber alles 40K fans just don't pay attention to 40K media. That's not the world portrayed in the Space Marine or Rogue Trader video games that are pretty lore accurate. It's not the world portrayed by the novels either which features some pretty damn heroic Space Marines and even Inquisitors. They also do show some nuance about how the Imperium of Man has some gnarly bits, but it's definitely not all dark all the time.
 

Dark Sun is like mixing Thundar the Barbarian and the pirates of the dark waters, but "darker", a mixing Conan the Barbarian, John Carter and Mad Max.

I guess the adventure "Freedom" could be updated in a way like "Curse of Strand", with new elements but keeping the essence.

WotC doesn't need to sell many new DS sourcebooks, only a player handbook and a monster manual, besided to unlock in DMGuild.

WotC has to choose what to do with the previous metaplot, and this has got its own risks.

Maybe the region of Tyr is a demiplane and something happened in the original Athaspace. Or Rajaat was chosen for some special asigment in exchange for enjoying the return to the blue age. The trick is Rajaat is now in a new demiplane being used like a "firewall" in the space-time continium to stop intruders from other planes. A poisonous gift but Rajaat will not regret the deal. A happy end? Only if you are a halfling, the rest aren't wellcome.

* If you have spent your money to buy the Warhammer 40K RPG then you are totally free to play in the way you wanted, even you could do a crossover with Starcraft, Mass effect, Star Wars, Fading Sung, Star Trek, Mutant Chronicles, Andromeda, Farscape, Dead Space or other space fantasy you wanted. Personally I got tired because it was too "grimm" in the sense those authors forget a very important lesson: the value of the dignity of the human life. If we can't understand this then we are psicopaths. Seriosly, some times I suspect some mangwa writters are psicopaths in the real life.
 


Art is supposed to make you uncomfortable. If you want something to make you comfortable, that's called ergonomics.
Art is supposed to create an emotional reaction or feeling. Sometimes that's uncomfortable. Most often it's not. I love art. I'm an artist myself. All the art I like doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, it makes me feel inspired, or impressed, or sparks good feelings. I don't think I'm an outlier.
 

There are a couple of threads on this already, but I wanted to put up a poll and ask a question I had in regards to Kyle Brink’s recent statement about Dark Sun.

Q: Is problematic content acceptable in a work if it's presented as obviously and explicitly evil and meant to be fought?

Problematic content is acceptable even if it isn't obviously and explicitly evil and/or meant to be fought. It just needs to be handled with a little more care, and isn't for every game table. Even then what is problematic is a sliding scale, what is problematic for some tables won't be for others, and stuff that on the surface doesn't appear problematic can produce problems in certain circumstances.

If you personally find certain topics problematic for you either avoid those games, or come up with a strategy to deal with them that works for you. You don't have the right to put your problems on other people to solve for you.

Of course the counterpoint to that is if you notice someone is having a problem with a certain topic, don't force it on them, or make it more of an issue. Do what you can to mitigate that problem for them.

Just treat every subject like an thoughtful caring person don't push things that you see others having issues with and any topic is fair game.
 

Art is supposed to create an emotional reaction or feeling. Sometimes that's uncomfortable. Most often it's not. I love art. I'm an artist myself. All the art I like doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, it makes me feel inspired, or impressed, or sparks good feelings. I don't think I'm an outlier.
All art is a flawed reproduction of reality or truth, filtered through our fallible senses. Any emotion we feel when experiencing art comes from those imperfections, those differences, the noise introduced into the signal by human interaction.

I don't know about you, but when I'm inspired, I'm not comfortable. I need to get up and do something.
 



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