D&D 5E Dashing with flying magic items, yea or nay?

[Mannahnin]

Is there any reason beyond strict RAW not to allow dashing on a broom? I'm not convinced it shouldn't be allowed, but if there were a balance issue I might reconsider.

Without some other reason, RAW alone isn't enough to convince me to tell a player "no" on this one.

Well yeah; the item is considered by a lot of folks to be overpowered. It doesn't require attunement, and it's only Uncommon.

I think the information Sword of Spirit has put together about the different flying items, their relative rarities and requirements for attunement or not is pretty interesting. I could get behind the idea that they'd be better balanced if the Broom and Carpet were ruled as having set max speeds like vehicles, as opposed to giving the user a speed they can Dash with.

Obviously you can fluff-justify it either way (Oofta's invocation of Harry Potter putting his head down and "gunning" his broom like a motorcycle is pretty vivid), and Sage Advice has ruled that you CAN Dash with it, but I'm not above a minor house rule for balance purposes and to make the four flying items more distinct in their capabilities.

 

[Minigiant]

I assume that movement in combat is not commiting your whole attention to movement. You can move x while doing y. You slash the orc for 3 seconds and move 30 feet for 3 seconds.

Dash is turning Y into X. You move X then move X.

To me you can only not dash on an item if it requires your action to just move. Meaning you need to put attention into movement just to move and you must commit to full speed doing so. Something like bicycling.

 

[billd91]

Brooms and carpets of flying may be vehicles in the sense that they don't impart a movement rate directly to the user (at least not as described) but they're not vehicles in the sense that a user can move about on them independently with their own movement in any significant sense - they're not like moving around on the deck of a ship or even like moving around on a wagon. They have a flying speed that is analogous to the character's movement rate and effectively replace their movement when in use. And if you can fit a broom's 50 foot flying speed within a character's normal movement capacity in a round, then you can darn well fit in another 50 feet if the user takes the Dash action, forgoing any other action.

 

[NotAYakk]

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A reading of the Broom of Flying is that you can speak a command word, and it hovers. There is nothing in the description about how you control it.

A fun way to make the Broom of Flying an uncommon no-attunement item that doesn't make other magic items obsolete is to require you to use an action to send it to a destination. It then proceeds to move 50' per round (on your turn; you can act before, after, or during the movement) towards that destination, navigating as it sees fit.

Changing the destination or stopping the Broom requires another action.

In effect, the Broom acts like the "alone" version of the broom when you ride it.

This makes it awkward to use in combat.

Similarly, the carpet of flying requires an action and a command word every time you tell it to do something. It independently works out how to do the thing you ask it to, and moves on your turn. Unlike the broom there is no ability to recall it if it is more than 30' away.

That reading ensures that the Broom and Carpet are useful items, but not as good as the attuned ones. The attuned ones grant you a flying speed and you control them mentally, like you are walking.

Also, with every use being "speak command word", people who overhear those command words can ... also use them.

Broom of Flying: Uncommon, no attunement. 50' speed up to 200 lbs, 30' up to 400 lbs. Requires actions to redirect to new destinations, and speaking command word publicly, cannot dash.

Winged Boots: Uncommon, attunement. flying speed equal to walking (30'ish default). 240 minutes of charge, regains 120 minutes / 12 hours you don't use them.

Wings of Flying: Attunement. Rare. 60' flying speed. 1 hour charge, recharges in 1d12 hours.

Carpet of Flying: No attunement, Very Rare. 30-80' flying speed, 800-200 lb capacity. Requires actions to redirect to new destinations, and speaking command word publicly, cannot dash.

With that strict interpretation of the non-attunement items, the rarity aligns better with quality. It does value the higher speed of the Wings of Flying over the Winged Boots, maybe too much.

 

[Oofta]

Oofta man, you're literally just wrong, RAW. Like re-read what the item says. It's vague as hell but your interpretation is not viable even with that. I like the conclusion you're coming to but it ain't even close to RAW, wheres @Paul Farquhar is.

I think that in general, DMs should really want these items to give people a speed and let them dash, because every other option is way more open to problems, but it isn't basic RAW with the broom.

The rules don't really state how you control a broom, other than that it "can be ridden in the air". Seems pretty clear to me that it's handled following the mounted combat rules. If it wasn't, there would be specific rules such as those for ships in Ghosts of Saltmarsh.

Put another way, presumably it's not an action or bonus action every round to control the broom. If it's not then it's replacing your movement. If it's replacing your movement, the brooms speed becomes your movement speed for the round. If it doesn't modify your movement then you could fly, land, and then move. Therefore the broom modifies a creatures movement, the creatures movement after all modifications have been applied is what you use for dashing.

Now, you may disagree with my line of reasoning. That's fine. If you're the DM you make the ruling. But just saying "you're wrong because that's not how I interpret RAW" doesn't really mean much. Personally I don't like brooms of flying and for all practical purposes they don't exist in my campaign world. That doesn't change my reasoning or my ruling.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm talking RAW, not logic. And RAW, the broom does it's own thing completely separate to what the PC does. It does not require driving.

Sure it does. The PC decides where it goes, so the PC is driving it.

Either the PC can dash on the broom, or the PC can using Steady Aim, can move and use the brooms movement, and can effectively ignore effects that reduce their speed to 0.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

​

A reading of the Broom of Flying is that you can speak a command word, and it hovers. There is nothing in the description about how you control it.

A fun way to make the Broom of Flying an uncommon no-attunement item that doesn't make other magic items obsolete is to require you to use an action to send it to a destination. It then proceeds to move 50' per round (on your turn; you can act before, after, or during the movement) towards that destination, navigating as it sees fit.

Changing the destination or stopping the Broom requires another action.

In effect, the Broom acts like the "alone" version of the broom when you ride it.

This makes it awkward to use in combat.

Similarly, the carpet of flying requires an action and a command word every time you tell it to do something. It independently works out how to do the thing you ask it to, and moves on your turn. Unlike the broom there is no ability to recall it if it is more than 30' away.

That reading ensures that the Broom and Carpet are useful items, but not as good as the attuned ones. The attuned ones grant you a flying speed and you control them mentally, like you are walking.

Also, with every use being "speak command word", people who overhear those command words can ... also use them.

Broom of Flying: Uncommon, no attunement. 50' speed up to 200 lbs, 30' up to 400 lbs. Requires actions to redirect to new destinations, and speaking command word publicly, cannot dash.

Winged Boots: Uncommon, attunement. flying speed equal to walking (30'ish default). 240 minutes of charge, regains 120 minutes / 12 hours you don't use them.

Wings of Flying: Attunement. Rare. 60' flying speed. 1 hour charge, recharges in 1d12 hours.

Carpet of Flying: No attunement, Very Rare. 30-80' flying speed, 800-200 lb capacity. Requires actions to redirect to new destinations, and speaking command word publicly, cannot dash.

With that strict interpretation of the non-attunement items, the rarity aligns better with quality. It does value the higher speed of the Wings of Flying over the Winged Boots, maybe too much.

This is about as strictly RAW as you can get, other than that there's no "Action" mentioned anywhere in the Broom's description, so it's not quite right either. (Though a perfectly reasonable ruling - and one that nerfs the broom, which is a bit OP compared to the others, depending on how one rules them). It's not gonna be popular with players who want one, though!

 

[NotAYakk]

This is about as strictly RAW as you can get, other than that there's no "Action" mentioned anywhere in the Broom's description, so it's not quite right either. (Though a perfectly reasonable ruling - and one that nerfs the broom, which is a bit OP compared to the others, depending on how one rules them). It's not gonna be popular with players who want one, though!

Sure; my goal was to make the items have plus and minuses.

The non attunement items require manual control.

Note that you don't have to give orders each round. Say "go over there". Just fine grained control in combat sucks.

"Broom, go to the top of the tower" is an action, even if it takes 10 minutes.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Sure; my goal was to make the items have plus and minuses.

The non attunement items require manual control.

Note that you don't have to give orders each round. Say "go over there". Just fine grained control in combat sucks.

"Broom, go to the top of the tower" is an action, even if it takes 10 minutes.

Yeah, I understand what you're getting at. It works! You just had to add "it takes an action" to the description to make it work, which is fine.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The rules don't really state how you control a broom, other than that it "can be ridden in the air". Seems pretty clear to me that it's handled following the mounted combat rules. If it wasn't, there would be specific rules such as those for ships in Ghosts of Saltmarsh.

Put another way, presumably it's not an action or bonus action every round to control the broom. If it's not then it's replacing your movement. If it's replacing your movement, the brooms speed becomes your movement speed for the round. If it doesn't modify your movement then you could fly, land, and then move. Therefore the broom modifies a creatures movement, the creatures movement after all modifications have been applied is what you use for dashing.

Now, you may disagree with my line of reasoning. That's fine. If you're the DM you make the ruling. But just saying "you're wrong because that's not how I interpret RAW" doesn't really mean much. Personally I don't like brooms of flying and for all practical purposes they don't exist in my campaign world. That doesn't change my reasoning or my ruling.

This is inductive reasoning, not RAW. A lot of things in D&D fall into the gaps. I like your reasoning, I don't really disagree with it, I just don't agree that it's RAW, because it's inductive reasoning. This is a fine ruling, the issue was that you were presenting it as RAW, not a ruling.