Dead in a Blade Barrier, what happens to the stuff?
- Thread starter Lord Thurham
- Start date
An object that is falling into the blade barrier with a dead character would be entitled to a saving throw.
If the saving throw fails, it takes damage.
If the saving throw succeeds, you might want to use the scatter diagram to see which way it flew out of the blade barrier.
Just because the body is mince meat, it doesn't mean the object wasn't moving upon entering the blade barrier.
And yes, that would give the object a reflex save BEFORE the body landed on the "plane" of the blades.
If the saving throw fails, it takes damage.
If the saving throw succeeds, you might want to use the scatter diagram to see which way it flew out of the blade barrier.
Just because the body is mince meat, it doesn't mean the object wasn't moving upon entering the blade barrier.
And yes, that would give the object a reflex save BEFORE the body landed on the "plane" of the blades.
I am dealing with a similar problem in my campaign. 3 PC's were killed, and shortly after the 3rd death, the BBEG Cleric tossed a blade-barrier while attempting to flee - all 3 PC's gear were in the area of effect. What survived? So far, their is no question in the players' minds that the soft stuff (gloves of storing, belts of many pouches, Heward's handy haversacks,cloaks, etc.) is toast. But what about weapons and armor, rings, torcs? These are hard targets!
What we are currently trying to figure out is this: Blade Barrier is a plane of whirling blades - HOW THICK IS THE PLANE?
If it's only a couple inches thick, the gear will most likely be UNDER it, and no save is necessary. If it's several feet thick, nothing will survive unless it gets thrown out by the blades.
(By the way, the duration of 600 rounds mentioned in an early post here cannot be accurate. BB is a 6th level spell; Minimum Caster Level is 11th, therefore minimum duration is 110 minutes, or 1100 rounds.)
To further confuse the issue, Blade Barrier, in its original iteration (1st/2nd Ed.) specifically did NOT affect physical features such as walls, trees, etc. While the 3rd Ed. description does not say this, examples of usage in the books lead me to conclude that again it won't chew up walls if cast in too small a space. Could the existing bodies (1) and piles of gear (2; bodies consumed by spells Destruction and Disintegrate) be treated as terrain features since they were there first?
What we are currently trying to figure out is this: Blade Barrier is a plane of whirling blades - HOW THICK IS THE PLANE?
If it's only a couple inches thick, the gear will most likely be UNDER it, and no save is necessary. If it's several feet thick, nothing will survive unless it gets thrown out by the blades.
(By the way, the duration of 600 rounds mentioned in an early post here cannot be accurate. BB is a 6th level spell; Minimum Caster Level is 11th, therefore minimum duration is 110 minutes, or 1100 rounds.)
To further confuse the issue, Blade Barrier, in its original iteration (1st/2nd Ed.) specifically did NOT affect physical features such as walls, trees, etc. While the 3rd Ed. description does not say this, examples of usage in the books lead me to conclude that again it won't chew up walls if cast in too small a space. Could the existing bodies (1) and piles of gear (2; bodies consumed by spells Destruction and Disintegrate) be treated as terrain features since they were there first?
0-hr
Starship Cartographer
from the SRD for Blade Barrier:warhookdm said:
A wall would have difficulty fitting into one of those three categories wouldn't it? Even a tree, though alive, is probably more of an object than a creature; and so will not be harmed unless it moves into the blades after the spell is cast.
Also note that only Creatures within the blade barrier when it is invoked get a saving throw. Objects that enter later do not.
Lord Thurham
First Post
warhookdm said:
In our campaign, we house ruled that the Blade Barrier is 5' thick. By default the Blade Barrier is on the ground unless specifically mentioned that it is at a different angle/height. We also house ruled that the Blade Barrier consists of many edged blades of all types flying around (ie. Swords, Axes, Daggers, and etc.)
warhookdm said:
You are correct, my mistake. We've never had to worry about the duration since most battles are over way before the duration of the spell. Must've been a senior moment for me!
warhookdm said:
I would agree that the existing inanimate objects are left alone. This is how we have been playing it.
HeavyG said:
Of course not, I'm giving a falling, MAGIC object a reflex save. Reread the post about damaging magic items, they ALWAYS get saving throws. You throw them in acid, saving throw!!
You throw them off a cliff, SAVING throw!! You hurl them into a volcano, saving throw!!
Why? Because its magic, and that gives them special fortitude against things normal things wouldn't.
Spatzimaus
First Post
Nothing gets a saving throw if the spell doesn't allow it. What would the saving throw be for throwing an item off a cliff? If a person doesn't get a save to avoid the damage, why would an item?
Blade Barrier doesn't allow a saving throw unless you started inside the field AND tried to leave immediately. Neither of those apply here. Even if you say it started inside the disk, I'd deny the saving throw for the same reason the DMG says you deny someone a Reflex save against Fireballs if there's nothing to duck behind: it just doesn't apply in that particular situation. Since the item has no way to dodge the blades or leave the field, no saving throw.
Regardless, even if it gets a saving throw (and it doesn't), you'd still fail eventually. The outcome of this scenario really depends on your opinion of whether items are affected by this spell at all.
If items aren't affected, then they'll all be fine. The corpse's clothing will be untouched, the blades going around him without harming his now-deceased body. Personally this sounds ridiculous to me, but it's easily interpreted this way under the rules. If I Hold a person inside a Blade Barrier they'd take just enough damage to die (then the blades would leave them alone because they're no longer a creature), but a statue of a person won't even be scratched?
If items ARE affected, they're pretty much all toast. Blade Barrier does a minimum of 11d6 damage per turn for 1100 turns. Steel has harness 10. That means even if you roll minimum damage every turn, the item is destroyed after a while. A magical item has higher hardness and can take more damage, but it'll still be destroyed in the long run.
You could argue that it's like Sunder, and therefore you have to beat the enhancement bonus. Is a Blade Barrier mundane slashing (in which case any DR helps against it) or is it inherently magical slashing (bypassing any DR that isn't X/-)? Well, is it stopped by Stoneskin in your campaign? If so, then magical items will survive thanks to their enhancement bonuses. If not, they're destroyed.
Blade Barrier doesn't allow a saving throw unless you started inside the field AND tried to leave immediately. Neither of those apply here. Even if you say it started inside the disk, I'd deny the saving throw for the same reason the DMG says you deny someone a Reflex save against Fireballs if there's nothing to duck behind: it just doesn't apply in that particular situation. Since the item has no way to dodge the blades or leave the field, no saving throw.
Regardless, even if it gets a saving throw (and it doesn't), you'd still fail eventually. The outcome of this scenario really depends on your opinion of whether items are affected by this spell at all.
If items aren't affected, then they'll all be fine. The corpse's clothing will be untouched, the blades going around him without harming his now-deceased body. Personally this sounds ridiculous to me, but it's easily interpreted this way under the rules. If I Hold a person inside a Blade Barrier they'd take just enough damage to die (then the blades would leave them alone because they're no longer a creature), but a statue of a person won't even be scratched?
If items ARE affected, they're pretty much all toast. Blade Barrier does a minimum of 11d6 damage per turn for 1100 turns. Steel has harness 10. That means even if you roll minimum damage every turn, the item is destroyed after a while. A magical item has higher hardness and can take more damage, but it'll still be destroyed in the long run.
You could argue that it's like Sunder, and therefore you have to beat the enhancement bonus. Is a Blade Barrier mundane slashing (in which case any DR helps against it) or is it inherently magical slashing (bypassing any DR that isn't X/-)? Well, is it stopped by Stoneskin in your campaign? If so, then magical items will survive thanks to their enhancement bonuses. If not, they're destroyed.
Lord Thurham
First Post
Spatzimaus said:
There's an interesting viewpoint. Hmmm... I'm gonna look deeper into that one. My gut feeling says that Stoneskin does not work in Blade Barrier. I haven't read anything the proves either way. Would Mage Armor work, No. Would having an AC of 40 work? No. Would having a Dexterity of 100 work? Only in the initial setup of the Blade Barrier (Great reflexes eh?). I would say Stoneskin would not work. But the spell description does raise an eyebrow...
LT
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