Dear Hasbro: about those minis

[MerricB]

A couple of notes:
* the DDM figures are painted by machine, and
* the number of paint steps really does impact on the price.

Rare figures are more expensive to make than common figures, but the difference in price probably isn't the same as the differential between them on the secondary market. Not every rare is expensive, either, but the cheaper rares allow the production of the more expensive rares.

Another note:
* The molding is very stressful on the molds. After a production run, the molds are no longer usable.

The result of this is that any new runs require the construction of new molds.

Cheers!

 

[smootrk]

Another note:
* The molding is very stressful on the molds. After a production run, the molds are no longer usable.

The result of this is that any new runs require the construction of new molds.

Cheers!

Production Molds are made from Master Molds, which are not put under the stresses of a production run. When new production molds are needed, they can always get more, albeit over a very long period even these Masters would deteriorate slightly.

 

[Glyfair]

Regardless of how cheap labor in China is or not, if painting a figure takes four times longer than for an other figure, than you have to pay four times as much, because you need four times as many workers to do it in the same time.

And don't forget that as the economy of China grows, the more expensive the labor becomes (in fact, China is deliberately trying to slow down their economic growth because of this). Expect anything that's made in China today to have significant price increases in the next few years, unless the economic trends change.

Another thing to consider about costs is that when a miniature set is produced, WotC gets the factory set up (which costs a large percentage of their costs), runs out a huge amount of the set, and then shuts down. It's not cost efficient for them to start up the factory to create a handful of miniatures with a much smaller amount sold. They'd probably have to tie it into another production, and that has its own issues (such as siphoning off that productions resources and possibly sales).

Another note:
* The molding is very stressful on the molds. After a production run, the molds are no longer usable.

The result of this is that any new runs require the construction of new molds.

In fact, some reports I've heard say they sometimes have several sets of molds they go through. Given that the molds are hugely expensive (tens of thousands of dollars each, at least in the 80s), that's the biggest barrier.

 

[brehobit]

I hope no one actually expects that minis sold this way by Wizards would be inexpensive. Commons are cheaper than uncommons are cheaper than rares in the secondary market because of availability and demand. For Wizards, though, a common orc costs the same to make as a rare warforged. You wouldn't get them at less than $1 a mini, and in fact, it'd probably be more expensive than the almost $2 a mini retail that it costs to buy a booster pack, regardless of 'rarity'. They wouldn't sell at such a high price, so I expect the quality of them would make the War Drums minis look great...

My suspicion is that if they could sell these without cannibalizing their existing market they could easily hit this price point and make money. I strongly suspect that the original art and master-mold costs are where a fair fraction of their costs lie. Once that's past, I'd be shocked if the cost/mini were greater than 10 cents, and I'd guess below 5 (for basic paint-jobs, medium-sized). Being able to reuse the master-mold and art would allow them to produce at a very low cost. Of course they take their profit, the distributor takes their and the stores take theirs, plus packaging, marketing, and related costs. But I still think this price-point would be quite achievable.

The only real question is if A) it would sell and B) if it would hurt the base sales of DDM. I think the answer to A) is "yes, but not overly well" and B) is probably not. But the risk of B likely outweighs the gain of A.

"Just an Engineer, what do I know"

 

[MerricB]

The only real question is if A) it would sell and B) if it would hurt the base sales of DDM. I think the answer to A) is "yes, but not overly well" and B) is probably not. But the risk of B likely outweighs the gain of A.

I don't think B is a big consideration, but A is. Even more, the problems it causes for distributors/retailers in stocking and warehousing increase the price more than the cost of making the minis.

Cheers!

 

[brehobit]

I don't think B is a big consideration, but A is. Even more, the problems it causes for distributors/retailers in stocking and warehousing increase the price more than the cost of making the minis.Cheers!

Any idea if my price guesses are in the right place?

I think putting out a new set every 4 months (and dropping a set after 1-1.5 years) would make it work fairly well... Again, I think this would be mostly mail-order and a few bigger stores.

Mark

 

[MerricB]

Again, I think this would be mostly mail-order and a few bigger stores.

That implies a small production run, which is uneconomical.

Cheers!

 

[brehobit]

That implies a small production run, which is uneconomical.

Cheers!

Is it if the only change is packaging? So if the cost to re-do a figure was low (and here I have no clue) then I think the small run (say a few thousand units) would make money. But I've no idea what scale DDM sells at.

 

[ssampier]

I don't think it was particularly so, though I could be wrong. Recall that the second edition of that game was fundamentally just rules; TSR didn't make specific minis for it.

True. I imagine the official Ral Partha AD&D minatures did not sell well either.

 

[Glyfair]

True. I imagine the official Ral Partha AD&D minatures did not sell well either.

I know I was still running into them in stores just before 3.5 was released. Admittedly, it was the fringe monsters I was running into.