Dear Hasbro: about those minis

[rgard]

You have to wonder how much Mage Knight is responsible for the random nature of D&D minis. That was a successful product line before DDM even existed, and they used the random distribution method. But Mage Knight was a skirmish product line to itself - there was nothing like the additional RPGers market that there is for D&D minis. I wonder if WotC looked hard at Mage Knight, saw that it was going ok, and decided to replicate their business model rather than risk going out on a limb with non-random distribution. It'd be an understandable way of going about things - the whole minis line must have been a pretty big financial gamble for WotC in the first place...

I think they actually improved on the Mage Knight business model:

1. Iconic D&D figures (WotC IP) that D&D players will want and others supposedly aren't to produce.
2. Combat for the minis game is a streamlined version of D&D's combat system so folks familiar with 3.x can play the skirmish game with little learning curve.' This is also an improvement on Chainmail with it's non D&D combat system.
3. Stat cards with D&D RPG stats on the reverse side...can't overstate the convenience this brings for me as a DM.
4. You get a fixed ratio of rarity in each box; 1 rare, 3 commons and 4 uncommons. Better than Mage Knight's potential 4 rookies in a box potential. This of course is borrowed from MtG.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Glyfair]

I think they actually improved on the Mage Knight business model:

I think you could have summarized 1-3 into "tied it into the huge existing D&D RPG market." I agree that's the huge strength of DDM. They sold (and sell) very well at my local FLGSs and the tournament scene barely exists. RPG players are doing the bulk of the buying.

 

[rgard]

I think you could have summarized 1-3 into "tied it into the huge existing D&D RPG market." I agree that's the huge strength of DDM. They sold (and sell) very well at my local FLGSs and the tournament scene barely exists. RPG players are doing the bulk of the buying.

Here you go:

1. Tied it into the huge existing D&D RPG market:

- Iconic D&D figures (WotC IP) that D&D players will want and others supposedly aren't to produce.
- Combat for the minis game is a streamlined version of D&D's combat system so folks familiar with 3.x can play the skirmish game with little learning curve.' This is also an improvement on Chainmail with it's non D&D combat system.
- Stat cards with D&D RPG stats on the reverse side...can't overstate the convenience this brings for me as a DM.

2. You get a fixed ratio of rarity in each box; 1 rare, 3 commons and 4 uncommons. Better than Mage Knight's potential 4 rookies in a box potential. This of course is borrowed from MtG.

 

[blargney the second]

Dungeon magazine is essentially a random assortment of adventures. I subscribe to it because I know that eventually most of them stand a chance of being used in my game, either because a given adventure fits the story that I want to run or because it inspires me to do something I wasn't planning on doing.

Same for random DDM figures.
-blarg

 

[Vanuslux]

According to who, your crystal ball? Look, I'll freely admit that the current model seems to be doing OK for Wizards, but you have no way of knowing whether WotC could be even more successful with a different business model. WotC embraced the collectible mentality for minis because the company was built on collectibility.

Many people have already given a fair amount of explanation of why the business model that the anti-random folks are trying to present will not work, complete with supporting facts about how similar non-random business models have fared unfavorably in comparison to the random business model. You work against your own argument by pointing out that WotC was built on collectible cards. You didn't see non-collectible card game makers blowing up the marketplace, just like you don't see non-collectible mini's going toe to toe in profitability with WotC's random collectibles. The profitability of collectibility has been proven over and over and over again in all kinds of markets.

It's not crystal ball gazing, it's the reality of business. Right now WotC has a business model in which people are buying cases of their product hoping for a few specific minis or to sell on the secondary market. If they start selling specific minis or even sets where people can see what they're getting then the case buyers and secondary sellers go bye-bye. The amount of people who are absolutely unwilling to work with the secondary market to get specific minis they want are not going to make up the difference when their current customer base stops buying boosters by the dozens.

 

[MerricB]

Very true.

But even beyond that, it is pretty hard to match the per-unit items cost of WotC retail on E-Bay.
Yeah, you can get cheap commons, but that isn't a straight comparison.

It's very interesting to see what happens:

* Rare figures go up in price, and you lose randomness. Law preserved.
* Common figures go down in price, but there aren't as many common figures. (12 per set instead of 60). Law preserved.

Cheers!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

QFT - But hey, like anybody who disagrees is actually going to take this into consideration...

The comparison between a pewter, unpainted set that included models like gnomes with mohawks and guns, and whose casts were known for fitting together poorly, requiring repairs by the painter, and a plastic set which comes pre-painted and which is almost entirely comprised of models that are useful for both skirmish battles and the D&D roleplaying game...is spurious.

 

[Thurbane]

The online petition is up:

http://www.petitiononline.com/WOTC1301/petition.html

...I humbly ask that people read it, and if you agree with the setiment, sign the petition.

I also ask that people please not spam or fill it with negative comments - in all likelihood, it will be rejected by WotC anyway, so if you disagree with the request, no need to sign.

 

[Thurbane]

I read through the entire thread and I didn't see much. Most of what I saw seemed to be that we were asking the boxed sets to REPLACE the random line. That isn't what we are asking (or at least what I am asking - a few people did come across that way and I'm not sure if they intended to or not). WotC is making waaaay too much money from that to just up and quit making them. I also understand the issue of boxes taking up shelf space and the risk of them not selling however I'm not asking for 50 different poses for Spawn of Tiamat or that ever elusive Celestial Flumph. I want orcs.

The target - and I believe the major audience - for the Boxed Sets would be those who aren't buying the regular minis. I'm not buying the regular minis. If you already have way too many orcs you won't be buying the new mini releases anyway so those won't be lost sales. They may lose a handful of purchasers that were buying the randomised minis for the hopes of getting the commons but then I also think (with no real evidence to back this up) that portion of the market is fairly small.

Exactly - well said.

 

[Thurbane]

i've got two of them thanks to the random nature of distribution. as an EPic it won't see use in my current campaign for at least 10 years real time


edit: in other words, i never would have bought it. EVAR.

Don't get me started on "how random is random" - myself and two friends bought 8 Giants of Legend packs. The reult of our huge minis? 1x Red Dragon (cool!), 2x Formorian (not bad), 5x Nightwalker... five of the ******* things. Not only an ugly mini, something that, if we were ever to use in a game, would only be ONE of!