Demon types - where did they go?

[Alzrius]

Planescape raised the total number of known Type VI demons to 24.

Actually, planescape held that every kind of non-unique tanar'ri (everything below an Abyssal Lord) was infinite in how many of them there were. Faces of Evil: The Fiends not only made this abundantly clear, but it also poked fun at the old Type system.

 

[Nightfall]

Good for them.

 

[Melan]

Actually, planescape held that every kind of non-unique tanar'ri (everything below an Abyssal Lord) was infinite in how many of them there were. Faces of Evil: The Fiends not only made this abundantly clear, but it also poked fun at the old Type system.

Ah, Plancescape, the world that made me discard D&D's planar structure and avoid TSR's products for years... "Cut the lingo, Berk", indeed. Berk berk berk.

 

[Garnfellow]

Planescape raised the total number of known Type VI demons to 24.

Balors really aren't strong enough for there to be so few of them, though.

I'm embarassed to admit I can recall something like this, but I'm pretty sure that one of Gygax's TSR novels (Artifact of Evil?) mentions 666 balors.

 

[Bregh]

Thanks for checking the archive, Olive!

For The Serge:

EGG relates a little on AD&D's planar cosmology v. his original intent on this page:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71486&page=4


Now to go dig out my GTR books and follow up on what Garnfellow has told us. Something nibbles at my brain that I heard this somewhere once, too. (edit: I think it was Sea of Death, when Eclavdra uses the idol to summon a Type VI...)

And the "24 balors known to exist" predates Planescape--it was coined first in Monstrous Compendium Appendix 8: The Outer Planes under the tanar'ri entry for balor, and was included in 2nd edition's Monstrous Manual under the same.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Now I was just looking through my 1e DMG, and in the back it has demons listed by type. As in type I, type II etc.

Of the non-unique ones theres Manes, succubus and 6 'types'. Type I is the vrock, type 2 are hezrou, and type III is glabrezu, all of which are familiar to us today. After that it gets a bit wierder.

Type IV includes the following: Bilwhr, Johud and Nalfeshnee.
Type V: Aishapra, Kevokulli, Marilith and Rehnaremme
Type VI: Alzoll, Balor, Errtu, Ndulu, Ter-soth and Wendonai

Now, I obviously know Nalfeshnee, Marilith and Balor but what are all these othes? And when did other new favourites like the babau come in?

I've read the thread, and so I know your original question has been answered, but I had a fun thought:

Why doesn't someone make up new species of demons (for 3.5) to go with these names? One could base a Bilwhr demon on the Type IV demon found in 1e, but it might be very different from a 3.5 Nalfeshnee. And so on for the other names.

Heck, one could even re-introduce the whole notion of types: type V demons would be multi-armed and snaky, but would be as various as nagas or dragons; type VI's would be winged and flamy, but would differ among themselves as much as pit fiends do from efreeti.

 

[the Jester]

I've read the thread, and so I know your original question has been answered, but I had a fun thought:

Why doesn't someone make up new species of demons (for 3.5) to go with these names? One could base a Bilwhr demon on the Type IV demon found in 1e, but it might be very different from a 3.5 Nalfeshnee. And so on for the other names.

Heck, one could even re-introduce the whole notion of types: type V demons would be multi-armed and snaky, but would be as various as nagas or dragons; type VI's would be winged and flamy, but would differ among themselves as much as pit fiends do from efreeti.

Excellent idea, I'm gonna do this imc for sure. Perhaps I'll sub in a Bilwhr, an Aishapra, and a Ndulu in my current epic-level conversion of Return to the Tomb of Horrors that I'm running.

 

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

Thanks for checking the archive, Olive!

For The Serge:

EGG relates a little on AD&D's planar cosmology v. his original intent on this page:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71486&page=4
QUOTE]

I'm not the Serge, but I was interested anyway, and I looked through the link there, and didn't find the information, could you be more specific on where to find it, please?

 

[Jehosephat]

Ah, but do you know where in the 1e core rules it lists the names of the other Type VI demons?

They are, in fact, in the DMG around page 200, in the Alphabetical Listings of Monsters; or what I usually the Monster XP Charts. In fact IIRC, there are more of the names listed there than in the MM. Its been a few months since I looked at the 1e books, but that is my recollection.

 

[Gez]

I looked through the link there, and didn't find the information, could you be more specific on where to find it, please?

Here

You probably use a lesser number of post per page, so the math is off. The link above is to the direct post -- and nothing else.

If you want to have the context of the thread, this is the post number #98 -- you see the number indicated in the upper-right corner, below the "edit, quick reply, reply with quote" button of the previous.