Design & Development: Warlord Article UP!

[Zimri]

Because, on the narrative interpretation of per-day martial abilities (as elaborated by others upthread) the per-day limit is not a limit on the character, but rather is a metagame limit on the player's narrative control.

Wahoooo my character is not limited, oh wait he is limited but only narratively.

The life he/she lives is in the narrative, if ,as some people want, (not me mind you I am perfectly find hand waving it but some people have been protesting saying that there is no IN CHARACTER explanation for x y or z) there needs to be an in character rationalization why you can only use an ability once, twice, or four times then my explanation , and query is no less appropriate than any other. He can use healing surges to regain stamina and he knows he can do it roughly X times cause every other day of his life he has, he can get back up once per encounter from being left a broken bloody heap because he's done it on occasion, even once or twice he was "going toward the light" and turned around got up and laid waste to those that laid him low.

I know I can do certain things in the real world, and how often i can do them, roughly. The characters that exist in the fantasy world should be no less cognizant of their abilities, in fact since life usually hangs in the balance for them they should be more aware.

 

[Spatula]

Or it could simply be that no one falls for the same trick twice and once they've seen it done they won't give you the chance to do it again.

That works for encounter powers, but not daily powers. Presumably you're fighting different foes over the course of the day, so foes from the first encounter don't have the chance to fall for the same trick twice, as they are already dead.

Or maybe it requires a moment of perfect clarity that tends to happen sometime during a battle, but you never know quite when.

Well, you'd know it won't be happening after it occured in any previous battles that day.

Even if it's just "I figure that most enemies give me about ONE opening to use that move when I fight them. If I don't take the opening right when I see it, I won't get the move off. Once I've used it, I rarely get another chance."

That works for encounter powers, but not for daily powers... If most enemies give you an opening to use "that" move, you should be able to use it once per encounter, instead of once per day, no?

Really the only way the daily powers "make sense" is if you assume Martial powers are at least sorta-magic (always a useful handwave for fantasy games), or go with the narrative explinations outlined upthread (which seem to fit in with 4e's view of skill use, as well). There's nothing wrong with either tack.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Or simply as people have stated before, Martial Daily Powers are sooo difficult to set up, and follow through with that the probability of being able to do so is only once per-day.

It is simply that the player is given more narrative-control of that day's combat in that he decides when this probability has turned into a reality and everything follows through.

Edit: Woops, sorry didn't see the little bit of text at the bottom talking about the narrative-explanation, sorry.

 

[Storm-Bringer]

Or simply as people have stated before, Martial Daily Powers are sooo difficult to set up, and follow through with that the probability of being able to do so is only once per-day.

It is simply that the player is given more narrative-control of that day's combat in that he decides when this probability has turned into a reality and everything follows through.

Edit: Woops, sorry didn't see the little bit of text at the bottom talking about the narrative-explanation, sorry.

Except, the 'probability' is either 100%, or 0%. It is also entirely under the player's purview of when it occurs, meaning the character has a certain control over the opponent's actions (from a narrativist view; the creature doesn't expose its weakness until the player says it does).

The first time they use it that day, the odds of finding the weakness are 100% (the odds of successfully exploiting it may be less). After that, the odds are 0% every successive time they attempt it.

In other words, the player may know they can only do it once a day, but it would take a pretty obtuse character to explain a complete inability to notice they either can't hit the same place to make an opponent bleed, or no matter how many times they hit successive opponents there, they don't bleed like the first one did that day (Crimson Edge).

 

[Fallen Seraph]

That can be summed up in a variety of ways, different opponents act differently meaning that it becomes much more difficult to strike through, they wear armour there, they try but the blade is shoved aside causing only a normal wound, etc.

They are always trying to pull it off, but the chances of them pulling it off is so rare it only occurs once-a-day (if it occurs, seeing how the characters/players won't always use the same daily powers each day or any at all).

Your also right that the player has some control over the opponent in that the player decides when this advantage (daily-power) comes into play. But that is sorta the idea of this kind of narrative-gameplay in which the players can also influence the world around them/the events going on in them slightly (though of course from the character perspective it is simply them gaining a advantage).

You are right that the probability of having that advantage goes from 100% to 0% (it is isn't reliable) from the players perspective. But the character wouldn't view it as the advantage entirely disappearing, but simply that completing that advantage or having the full advantage simply doesn't materialize.

 

[Derren]

They are always trying to pull it off, but the chances of them pulling it off is so rare it only occurs once-a-day (if it occurs, seeing how the characters/players won't always use the same daily powers each day or any at all).

That doesn't really explain what happens because the daily power is no automatic hit.
If they really try to do it all the time and only succeed once a day then they would constantly get the "miss" result of the power except once.
No, they only try it once per day and otherwise use different combat powers.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

They may be trying to set up the advantage/circumstance to set up the daily all the time, but that doesn't mean every time they try and set it up it gets to the point where they try to fulfil the set-up and go for the attack where they could still miss and then the miss-effect comes into play.

Essentially the daily is a combination of setting up the event (something that be going on throughout combat-session, through setting it up getting the advantage you need to fulfil, then finally going for it and either managing to succeed or failing) doing a daily-power is supposed to be extremely tough and this shows why.

 

[KarinsDad]

Or simply as people have stated before, Martial Daily Powers are sooo difficult to set up, and follow through with that the probability of being able to do so is only once per-day.

I have to admit that I find these types of power rationals (or explanations) somewhat amusing.

It's nearly impossible to rationalize game mechanic derived from other game mechanics. A daily is a game mechanic solely introduced as a big gun ability balanced by a limited frequency, nothing more. It's pure game mechanics. Trying to make sense of it (for the entire gaming population) is difficult or impossible because it is not a model of the fantasy world. It is a model of the game mechanics.

When one models from the vision of the fantasy world, then it's easier to rationalize or explain the rules derived thereof and more people will typically buy into it.

When one models from the game mechanics (like with daily or per encounter powers), then it's often difficult to rationalize and one person's rationalization will not satisfy another person (and by difficult, I mean difficult to come up with an explanation which just makes sense for most everyone).

People have been putting up all kinds of rationals, some better, some worse, for some of the (specifically Warlord daily) martial powers. But, having ammunition of martial abilities just does not make real sense and never will.

Ammunition is for guns, not for 6 to 60 seconds abilities that people can do, but only once per day (or once per 10 minutes). That's because dailies are a game mechanic for balance reasons, not for common sense modeling of the fantasy world reasons. There is no fantasy rational for them that makes real sense for their frequency and even some of the more reasonable rationals will not satisfy everyone because by the very fact that they are couple of seconds or minutes once per day, they are artificial.

Granted, divine powers can make some sense as dailies because the Gods only permit one per day (in a "the deities control resources" fantasy model), but this is a bit forced as well.

Arcane makes even less sense (but one could still extrapolate an arcane exhaution of capability model), but martial makes no sense. And yes, I realize someone will throw out a rational like your probability concept, but these types of rationals are still totally artificial and lacking. They are an "after the game mechanic is designed" attempt at rationalization, not a "the game mechanic including frequency is modeled from the original reason for the power". Anytime it is done in this backwards order, there are going to be people who have an issue with the explanation.

Game mechanics like these are awkward because they reinforce the fact that someone is playing a game (i.e. they disrupt suspension of disbelief for some people).

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Oh I agree some-people will not agree with it. I am more trying to get across how I view it, which works for my level of believability/gameplay. Now that won't work for everyone, but *shrugs shoulders* works for me.

I am more just trying to get across, why it works for me.

Just like how others try to get across, why it doesn't work for them.

I think going away from all the believability/non-believability, it does work in real-life/it doesn't, etc.

One big bonus for me with this model is it gives a real sense beyond simply critical for martial characters that when they do manage to pull of something incredible, or manages to succeed in some sort of exploit that there is a noticeable difference in how it affects the monster/outcome of the battle.

 

[KarinsDad]

Oh I agree some-people will not agree with it. I am more trying to get across how I view it, which works for my level of believability/gameplay. Now that won't work for everyone, but *shrugs shoulders* works for me.

I am more just trying to get across, why it works for me.

Just like how others try to get across, why it doesn't work for them.

Fair enough. You do tend to use words like "is" and "are" when describing your explanations instead of "could be", so you sometimes come off a bit as if your explanation is precisely what WotC was thinking and everyone else should think that way as well. This is not snark against you, it's just my perception of how you explain.

And of course, if we need explanations for how and why powers work in the first place by fellow community members, then by definition something is wrong with the power explanations in the rules (obviously, YMMV). Powers should be pretty self evident and comfortable fluff-wise right out of the box, just like they are crunch-wise.