D&D (2024) Did you make up your mind about 5.24?

[Deset Gled]

It depends on the choice of setting. Some aim for accuracy and verisimilitude. Others aim for whimsy and anachronisms.

Oh, I'm definitely on the side of versimilitude in RPGs. I would consider myself a member of the waning group in support of simulationism in RPGs. But you can't fault a system for failing in accuracy when it's not even aimed at the target.

D&D isn't trying to model real world polytheism. In the same boat, it's knights and paladins aren't trying to model real world monotheistic religions. In fact, D&D has made intentional changes over time to move itself further away from real religions and cultures many times.

So, to take things back to the thread topic, I think it's really weird to judge 5e 2024 based on how well it models real world polytheism. In the same vein, I'm more than happy to critique the versimilitude of a Fireball spell based on its coherence with the Evocation school of magic, it's compatibility with magic mechanics, and it's overall consistency with the presented game world. But I'd never critique Fireball for how well it models a mortar explosion, because that's not a thing it's supposed to do. If you're asking a Fireball to model a mortar, that's on you, not the system.

 

[Yaarel]

D&D isn't trying to model real world polytheism.

D&D is getting better at modeling polytheism. Theros is decent. D&D has stopped statting gods for a while now. Better distinctions are made between animistic Primal versus theistic Divine, and even the Divine adapts better for abstract concepts, including philosophical traditions, and the power of oaths and vows.

When looking at the 2024 Greyhawk polytheism, the alignments are mostly irrelevant. Instead the table mentions the kinds of people who petition the deity, including "farmers, families, sages, spellcasters, wanderers, bandits, soldiers, athletes, judges, gamblers, miners, ..." and so on. This approach feels more realistic and helps the "pantheon approach" to polytheism make more sense.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah I was more speaking lore, the mechanics are basically written as to not require gods at all, but all D&D pantheons are set up as if they are modern religions wearing a few trappings of polytheisms (in effect, modern pagan revivals)

It's mostly an issue with lore, not rules. However, during 2e and 3e there was an attempt to codify that lore as rules, and now we have people who are upset that those rules are no longer part of the game.

D&D was written mostly by people who are culturally christain, for an audience that is culturally christian. Which means it needs more explanation of how other religions, especially polytheistic ones, actually work. (Hypothesis: this (unintentional) christian bias was why the game flopped in Japan).

 

[Storyteller Hero]

"5.24" evokes the funny scenario of Hasbro/WotC milking 5e with 75 more version updates until 6e.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

It's mostly an issue with lore, not rules. However, during 2e and 3e there was an attempt to codify that lore as rules, and now we have people who are upset that those rules are no longer part of the game.

D&D was written mostly by people who are culturally christain, for an audience that is culturally christian. Which means it needs more explanation of how other religions, especially polytheistic ones, actually work. (Hypothesis: this (unintentional) christian bias was why the game flopped in Japan).

You actually get the same problem but flipped in Japanese manga, where Japanese writers and artists have Catholic nuns jumping around like Shinto shrine maidens.

 

[Corinnguard]

"5.24" evokes the funny scenario of Hasbro/WotC milking 5e with 75 more version updates until 6e.

They could if they fix up every little piece of errata we come across in the next 10 years. 76 version updates in 10 years comes to 7.6 updates per year.

 

[Dausuul]

My overall opinion is "Meh."

There are a number of nice little improvements, but nothing that knocks my socks off. Meanwhile, the complexity dial has been cranked up a couple more notches, and it was already higher than I liked.

Some "fixes" ended up breaking the mechanic in question even worse than the original. Dual wielding still demands your bonus action as the price of effectiveness, but now involves jumping through several more hoops and making very specific weapon selections (one Nick and one non-Nick weapon, both Light) to reach that point. And let's not even start with Stealth.

Moving fixed stat mods to backgrounds was just dumb. They solved the whole issue perfectly with Tasha's -- just hand out a floating +2/+1 and call it a day -- and then they went and un-solved it, in a way that really punishes you if you want to play a character with an unusual background. (And on top of that, they made three backgrounds -- Guard, Noble, and Acolyte -- with the three least useful stat combinations.)

On the plus side, Weapon Mastery looks good (aside from Nick, and also Topple -- not a fan of any mechanic that calls for a saving throw on every single hit), and many crappy subclasses, feats, species, and spells have been brought up to par, which I appreciate.

My group is moving to 2024E when I wrap up my current campaign, and I'm fine with that. If they wanted to stay on 2014, I'd be fine with that too.

 

[mamba]

It’s functionally the same as a small temple though. It houses a statue of the god, and that’s it. Worshipers have to stay outside, whist only the priests enter and attend the god. There is no preaching, and people only go to the temple when they want something of the god. It’s very common for D&D temples to be depicted with rows of pews inside!

agreed, but that too is very easily fixed by the DM