Dips, builds and patience!

[Warpiglet]

Hello gang...

So often on the forum we see suggestions about taking 2 levels of this, 3 of that and then you are "online" at level 10!

I get it, but I don't...I want to play NOW. How many people suggesting these "builds" are really enjoying their character? It almost reminds me of the bards of 1e. Sure they have a lot of stuff, but holy cow, it is a lifetime just to get there!

I have taken a single level of something here or there, but only after my character is established and frankly only twice.

I have a hexblade I enjoy and thought about hordebreaker and extra spells via ranger...but OMG! If I do them early, I am playing a ranger more than a warlock. If I do them late the take a long time to realize. I suppose I could alternate 1 level or even two until I reach the goal...

But I am blown away by people suggesting complicated builds. What do you get, a whopping session or two of design glory before the campaign is scrapped?

If you have the patience, go for it! I am starting to think I don't.

 

[Hjorimir]

I certainly agree that enjoying the character throughout the leveling experience is the most important thing. I think that when you get into the topic of character optimization you're naturally going to pull in some odd multiclass options that highlight some synergies between class abilities, feats, and so forth. All of that said, an enjoyable character to level up and one that "comes together" or "online" at a later level are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[Mistwell]

I agree warpiglet.

I think the suggestions most frequently happen in two scenarios:

1) People who start their character out at higher level, so they don't play through those early levels, and
2) People who are white-room contemplating a character on paper, as opposed to actually playing it through.

I think most people who play a character from level 1 tend to choose things which "come online" pretty darn early. People don't want to play for what (in my games at least) could be a year or more, while saying "next year you wait and see how awesome this character will be".

 

[nswanson27]

Having done this road personally, I don't really see any issue. It's just that in the earlier levels you don't have everything that you have at higher level - exactly the same situation as if you were going single class. But it was still fun at the early levels. I mean, the game as a whole feels a lot different when the tanks only have 25 hp, and the spellcaster will actually cast burning hands as their action. Plus, part of the fun of leveling up IS what you get to look forward to.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

For my part, it seems like there’s a basic difference in character design theory that boils down to “being a thing” and “doing a thing.” Personally, I want to play a stodgy dwarven bard, or cowardly tiefling. I don’t make a character “to do 10d6 damage at 5th level” or to “be unable to fail a persuasion check at 3rd level.”

Some people like one, some like the other, and a few like both. Different people have different kinds of fun. There's room in the hobby for all sorts of fun. But I know what I enjoy, and I know what I have more fun playing beside or DMing for.

 

[Warpiglet]

For my part, it seems like there’s a basic difference in character design theory that boils down to “being a thing” and “doing a thing.” Personally, I want to play a stodgy dwarven bard, or cowardly tiefling. I don’t make a character “to do 10d6 damage at 5th level” or to “be unable to fail a persuasion check at 3rd level.”

Some people like one, some like the other, and a few like both. Different people have different kinds of fun. There's room in the hobby for all sorts of fun. But I know what I enjoy, and I know what I have more fun playing beside or DMing for.

Totally. And agreed, both can be fun for the right person. My friend likes Viking sorts who craft and cast arcane/divine spells. It's a concept and by third Level he has three classes! But he too I think is concept as well as ability driven in the end.

Themistocles can muster is core concept with a dash or x. For example warlock with a level or two of ranger or sorcerer
Or whatever if I want to play up casting or melee. Or in the past straight bladelock! But it needs to be an ideaearly
For me to get immersed.

I am playing a creepy fighting Baron (hexblade). Thinking about adding a dash of some martial fire power but I don't want to move to far away from dark powers for too long!

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

There's just some options you can't do without multiclassing. Luckily 5th edition is balanced enough that the initial set back up multiclassing doesn't make a character become a lump until the entire career path comes together.

 

[Oofta]

When I've multi-classed it was more because of character story and arc than for optimization. I'm not sure it was really worth the sacrifice from a power/capability standpoint because while it gave my character some additional abilities it also meant I didn't have some nice options at higher levels. Then there's always the temptation to take just one more level of the other class to get some nice option. Which is why my rogue with a little fighter ended up taking too many levels of fighter ... because if you've done 3 levels of fighter you might as well take 4 to get the ASI and once you have 4 then that extra attack at 5th would be so awesome ... then well why not get to 6th for the feat.

I still had fun with the character, but he probably would have been more effective as just a straight rogue. I know other people in our group commented on that as well, especially in our home campaign where we went up to 20th level. Even those that had a little more discipline than I did and simply took 2 levels of another class.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Personally, I want to play a stodgy dwarven bard, or cowardly tiefling. I don’t make a character “to do 10d6 damage at 5th level” or to “be unable to fail a persuasion check at 3rd level.”

To each their own but this sums up exactly my group's feelings. We want living, breathing characters, not mechanical concepts. "Combo" characters created by dipping seem more suited for video game characters than tabletop.

I'll share my anecdote in support. Went to GenCon when 5E was released and got a table with 6 other gamers. I used a pre-gen character while a few made their own. The game started by going around the table clockwise saying how you knew the character next to you, then reversed by saying why you're compelled to adventure with the person on the other side of you. It was role-play at its core. But, I could tell a pair of gamers weren't expecting this. One had created a Drow Paladin of Mask (god of thieves), a dual wielding combat machine, and the other something similarly oddball. They were ready to talk about their character's abilities, how much damage they could do, their stats, and were doing so pre-session. And part of that is fine, to be proud of what your character brings to the table. But the actual roleplay, missing. Eventually, the DM had to skip over the Drow player because he couldn't figure out, even with help, why he had to explain why people would want to adventure with him. He was playing a Drow Paladin after all!

In contrast, my generic fighter pregen with a preset story about being former mayor of a town buried by a volcano became, through efforts of others, a rallying cry for the group to head for the town of Phlan, establish ourselves, and run things (even though it wasn't going to happen at GenCon, we talked about long-term plans to get me established as mayor or senator or whatever they had).

In summary, the Drow player struck me as someone who would dip because for him, the cool part of the game is the "build." That's great in a video game, but in a real-life social setting, there's got to be more.

 

[Ganders]

There are all sorts of multiclass builds. Some are theoretical about what you'll get at level 20, or some other high level, but some aren't.

First of all, remember that many single-class builds don't really come online until level 5 or 6 either. Many of the classes in 5th edition are indeed front loaded, but some of the important stuff comes later (for example Extra Attack, or Auras, or any number of level 6 sublclass abilities).

Some multiclass builds are dipping just for a particular cantrip. And cantrips scale with character level, so you don't feel as delayed.

Some multiclass builds are about doing two different things at once (wearing armor and casting is typical, but other combos exist). Usually those two things come at level 1, 2, or 3 in each class. So that one combo that they really care about is online by level 5 or 6. They may continue to talk about how much greater they'll be when they also have the level 5-6 thing from one of their classes, but they're already having fun because they already have that all important combo.

If the all-important combo that you care about is a level 6 ability from one class and a level 5 ability from the other (a common issue with Gish) then yes, now you need to be really patient.