Dips, builds and patience!

[WarpedAcorn]

My main character is a Fighter/Cleric and I felt VERY strong earlier on due to the 1 level dip into Cleric. But at level 5, when the casters got their 3rd level slots, I felt weaker due to not getting the similar bump from the extra weapon attack. But when I got level 6 I was back to feeling pretty damn strong.

I didn't like the feeling of being left behind at CL5, so some of the builds that don't "come online" until later I can see as being a pain to actually play through. But it might be worth it to have that "dream build" that plays exactly like you want it to.

 

[hejtmane]

My main character is a Fighter/Cleric and I felt VERY strong earlier on due to the 1 level dip into Cleric. But at level 5, when the casters got their 3rd level slots, I felt weaker due to not getting the similar bump from the extra weapon attack. But when I got level 6 I was back to feeling pretty damn strong.

I didn't like the feeling of being left behind at CL5, so some of the builds that don't "come online" until later I can see as being a pain to actually play through. But it might be worth it to have that "dream build" that plays exactly like you want it to.

Thats the biggest thing is planning your level dips because it can be a slog if done wrong; that is what I like about 5e Multiclassing has tough decisions on when and what to delay from asi's, attacks or a power

 

[TwoSix]

Do they really? I am away from my books right now but I thought cantrips scale with CASTER level. So a caster class taking a cantrip scales with level because caster level = character level but a non-caster getting a cantrip would be a level 1 caster unless gaining levels in a casting class.

Is that right or am I remembering incorrectly?

You're remembering incorrectly. Now, one could certainly argue that your way is the better way (I personally feel that way), but that isn't the current rule.

 

[AmerginLiath]

What always strikes me is the Guide Logic of “never multiclass until after fifth level” because of second attacks or ASIs or such. Never being the number-cruncher sort (multiclassing for me personally is always about expanding abilities rather than further specializing, plus I have a history from my own gaming experience of what might be called nonoptimized choices). Especially with the impact of internet communities, I wonder if we’re simply being taught that it’s expected for characters to “go online” later as it’s reiterated more and more often how problematic it is to delay certain milestones in level progression so as broaden out abilities at lower levels. I, of course, find that balderdash (probably tied partly to the fact that I avoidhigh-level campaigns like the plague, so I’d never get to experience a multiclass character if I didn’t start mixing it up early). But I do think that the “rules” we see in things like guidebooks (which do have a solid place in offering advice over how different choices work and how they work together, even if one is willing to shop outside the Blues) color how players multiclass today.

 

[Wulffolk]

A sizeable percentage of the rpg community also plays video games. Many of them play MMO's. Most MMO's are all about the "End Game" content, so a player must build towards an effective end game character to continue having fun in such a competitive environment.

The problem comes from such a large number of current players coming from a video game background, and carrying over the "End Game" philosophy from MMO's. D&D is not built that way. D&D is about the journey and the progression. Most D&D games end LONG before reaching higher levels, so building a character specifically for how well it will perform at 20th level is pointless. This is why we so often hear complaints about the lack of high level content for D&D.

The solution would be to give "End Game" some real consideration when designing the system for 6e. For example, set up the game for characters to reach top level at something like 10th level and figure out a way to allow them to continue to evolve linearly without gaining exponential power. That way people could enjoy their "End Game" characters for a prolonged period of time without the game becoming ridiculous. This would mean that players could enjoy the "sweet spot" of D&D levels for however long they wanted to play that character, and could more easily integrate with newer character's.

And before somebody nit-picks my post over "facts" and needing "citations" to back up "claims", let me just acknowledge right now that everything said above is just my opinion based upon my own personal experiences and bias. Anybody needing "proof" can pick an arguement with somebody else.

 

[jgsugden]

Crimany.

D&D is an RPG. A role playing game. Your characters play a role in a story. If the advacement of your charactr tells a good story, enjoy it and don't worry if it is optimized.

Yes, you feel a multiclass when you hit 5th level and the single class characters are throwin garound fireballs, multi-attacks, etc... but so what? You likely felt stronger at an earlier level. Those first level benefis can be a nice boost to an existing low level PC.

 

[gyor]

Honestly in practice I find I prefer multiclassing via certain feats like Ritual Caster and Magic innaite for example better then the dip.

 

[Ancalagon]

In summary, the Drow player struck me as someone who would dip because for him, the cool part of the game is the "build." That's great in a video game, but in a real-life social setting, there's got to be more.

I'm very wary of people who put excessive importance on the build - the character building mini-game becomes *the* game, and the actual game is only a proving ground to demonstrate that their build was awesome. This can lead to not so great gameplay.

 

[Sleepy Walker]

I'm very wary of people who put excessive importance on the build - the character building mini-game becomes *the* game, and the actual game is only a proving ground to demonstrate that their build was awesome. This can lead to not so great gameplay.

Depends on the person. I think many people have only a shallow idea about his or her character and need a good hour or so of in-game time to develop a good reason to be adventuring together. I can make a massive backstory (as I did recently), but it still ended up with one player character semi-metagaming to ask me to come along or else I would have to semi-metagame to find a reason to demand that my character comes along. This has been the case for each of my characters, with the exception of one which was flat out hired to be with the party.

I mean anybody can say," I'm adventuring with you because you look strong" or "the guild set us up" or "we have the same employer" or "I think you are traveling roughly the same general direction" or "we are wearing the same color, blue.... red... yellow... brown, you have to be wearing brown". Anything deeper than that (roughly saying) requires either in-game time or preptime to get stories intertwine. I think it is a rare person that goes out and says," I'm adventuring with x because I am his 2nd cousin's best man's sister's labradoodle transformed into a tiefling and I think Aberfilch is really dreamy.... all 75 years... I have a thing for magic." While that could be absolutely hilarious, it could also be uncomfortable and undesirable. Don't know since you have never met this player or character before. It is very much so easier to speak of what you know, which is your character's stats and other story bits that you do not care about other people knowing.

Not saying this is the case, because it is not out of the question that a player might want to be more well rounded, but I've seen this pattern quite a lot at the start of games.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm very wary of people who put excessive importance on the build - the character building mini-game becomes *the* game, and the actual game is only a proving ground to demonstrate that their build was awesome. This can lead to not so great gameplay.

This is why I ended up quitting/avoiding 3.X, Pathfinder, and 4E. I am glad there is so much less emphasis on that in 5E.