Disney sues Midjourney

[Blue]

Why? That seems like a major leap.

Let me restate this. If there are zero legal repercussions for those collecting copyrighted material, there is no deterrent on those collecting copyrighted material to make sure the models they train on that material aren't misused. And by misused, I mean used outside the boundaries of Fair Use.

Does it make sense now?

What colloquially gets referred to as style cannot currently be copyright except in the most near exact match of cases.

Which is why I didn't refer to it as copyright but as counterfeiting. And if it's close enough that it's considered a derivative work there are other legal issue.

Again, please refer to the real world issue with Studio Ghibli a few months back, that while there currently legal systems have not caught up to AI for widespread style copying, that doesn't mean this isn't something that moving forward shouldn't be protected. The law often lags behind activities-that-should-be-crimes made possible by technology.

Generative ai would be great for that. As long as end users get held accountable for copyrighted materials they produce with an AI then there would be incentive for them to use ai’s that don’t produce copyrighted works, and thus incentive to create such ai’s.

Again, the end user doesn't have the training material and can produce copyrighted material without knowing it. The enforcement cannot be on that side, or cannot be solely on that side. There must be provisions in place that if material is collected for Fair Use, it is ONLY used for Fair Use. And that means deterrent needs to affect the collector.

I think it’s worth noting that there’s currently a lot of duplication that qualifies as fair use.

I'm going to assume that since you suggested and are defending it, that you understand what fair use is. Let me remind others:

Fair use is a legal doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder, primarily for purposes like criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

Can you explain how you see that 'a lot of the duplication' is for the purpose of 'criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research'?

Because I don't see that, especially among generative AI used for art.

 

[Bohandas]

And that people will just be given what they need by those who made the robots isn't?

I've said some utopian things here but even I have my limits

Also, are you imagining factories? I'm more imgining the scope of household appliances and computer software being gradually expanded until eventually they do everything including writing software and building household appliances. We're getting close to software that programs software already.

 

[Ryujin]

Let me restate this. If there are zero legal repercussions for those collecting copyrighted material, there is no deterrent on those collecting copyrighted material to make sure the models they train on that material aren't misused. And by misused, I mean used outside the boundaries of Fair Use.

Very much this. There's also the simple expedient that it's far easier to control the source of the offending material (the AI), than it is to later police potentially millions of items that are produced by it.

As a one-time professional motorsports photographer, there were several occasions in which I found my work being used outside of license. I recognized that if I put anything online then it would, inevitably, be copied and used in some capacity. For that reason I embraced a Creative Commons Attribution, Non Commercial, No Derivatives license. I found people using my pictures on commercial websites, when they could easily afford the pittance I was charging. People were using them in promotional materials. I found two separate groups actively selling them. It was almost a full time job to try and track this stuff. I can't imagine what it would be like if someone scraped all of my work and was then selling it, if my only recourse was then against the people/organizations that were using my work after purchase.

 

[Scribe]

We're getting close to software that programs software already.

Last I saw, not really.

This reminds me of the guy when I was in school decades ago having an argument with an IT Security professional.

"Well what about when Quantum computing is in the home and passwords just get cracked all the time?!?"

Its been decades of 'well what about when'.

 

[Morrus]

Every AI thread ends up the exact same way--a dozen people arguing with one person trotting out the exact same stuff that a different one person argued with a dozen people about for 30 pages in each of the last 30 identical threads. Every single time. The only thing that changes is the identity of the one person. The conversation is identical.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I've said some utopian things here but even I have my limits

Also, are you imagining factories? I'm more imgining the scope of household appliances and computer software being gradually expanded until eventually they do everything including writing software and building household appliances. We're getting close to software that programs software already.

This will not happen because no money can be made taking steps in this direction.

 

[Bohandas]

This will not happen because no money can be made taking steps in this direction.

Plenty of money can be made moving in that direction. All that needs to happen is for businesses to keep pursuing short term gains at the expense long term stability, and for anti-trust laws to remain in force. As long as the economy remains in a state of discord companies will keep one-upping each other.

I've heard this same argument from alternative medicine conspiracy theorists. They're like "Well, why would they actually cure the disease when they make money from treating it."
The ANSWER is because the company that cures it takes the whole pot and gets all the business that previously belonged to any companies that weren't trying.

And yes, I will cede that this dynamic also presupposes a degree of intellectual property protections. When copyright is as short and as reasonable in duration and scope as patents are come back to me and we'll talk.

Last I saw, not really.

This reminds me of the guy when I was in school decades ago having an argument with an IT Security professional.

"Well what about when Quantum computing is in the home and passwords just get cracked all the time?!?"

Its been decades of 'well what about when'.

Five or six years ago I would have been in the same boat as you, but then the AI revolution happened, and it changed my perspective on all of these vaporware technologies that they've been talking about for decades. Later really does mean later, not never.

 

[Bohandas]

Again, please refer to the real world issue with Studio Ghibli a few months back, that while there currently legal systems have not caught up to AI for widespread style copying, that doesn't mean this isn't something that moving forward shouldn't be protected. The law often lags behind activities-that-should-be-crimes made possible by technology..

Why should legal systems need to "catch up" to every new technology? It;s bad enough that they regulated the hell out of TV and the internet and now you want them to regulate the hell out of AI too?

I wish we could go back to the lawless internet of 1990's and early the turn of the century, but alas that's too utopian even for me to expect.

I don't think I could bear to see another worldshaking technologies get turned into bowdlerized gentrified enshittified well-regulated business-safe profitable trash

 

[Scribe]

Five or six years ago I would have been in the same boat as you, but then the AI revolution happened, and it changed my perspective on all of these vaporware technologies that they've been talking about for decades. Later really does mean later, not never.

Revolution?!

When did that happen? It still hallucinates, it still fails to recognize how many FINGERS a human has.

Would you really trust an AI with even filing your taxes?

 

[Scribe]

I don't think I could bear to see another worldshaking technologies get turned into bowdlerized gentrified enshittified well-regulated business-safe profitable trash

Man I hate to break it to you...