[DM needs help] Elven Sorceror, "trance" for 4 hours, can they be on "watch" other 4?

[Particle_Man]

I don't let them be on watch (sitting around does not count, being on watch means checking the area all the time), but I have them awake and ready to act if something happens.

That's the reason btw why my players tend to halfelves ... fighters, rangers and rogues. They don't need so much sleep and can be on watch half of the night.

Actually, while halfelves are immune to the sleep spell, and do gain a +1 bonus to spot and listen (and search), they have to sleep the same amount as humans do. While I agree that Wotc should have been more clear, it is mentioned under the Nightmare spell that while elves do not require sleep, halfelves do. And it is never mentioned anywhere that halfelves do not require sleep. (And to preempt a counter-argument, no, elven blood does not count -- otherwise the halfelf would have all of the other benefits of being an elf too (dex bonus, +2 to spot/listen/search, auto-notice secret doors, etc.). Elven blood is about using "elf-only" magic items or being beaten up by elf-hating rangers).

 

[Elaer]

Let me preface by saying that I may be wrong, but here I go anyway:

I don't believe there are rules for "Standing Watch." That is to say that there are rules for making spot and listen checks, but not specific ones for the person designated as the watchman or sentry. Basically, standing watch is an in character way of making sure someone always has eyes open ears awake (allowing spot checks and negating the -10 listen penalty for sleeping).

Another clarification: reactive use of spot and listen are not an action... they "are considered an inherent part of doing something else." Now, while the 8 hours of rest bans skill use, one might also argue that means actions that include skill use... otherwise, the simple act of rolling a reactive listen check (sleeping, in a trance, or otherwise) would ruin that hour of rest. I would assert that simply noticing something is, as per the rules, an inherent part of being awake.

My take? As long as the elf was awake and took no action, he could still notice people trying to sneak up on him. If he tried to investigate (attempting a retry, patrolling about the camp, and such) then he would have interrupted his rest.

 

[vox]

Levels of paying attention

I'd say that a character "on watch" is actively paying attention to their surroundings, just like when they are walking through a dungeon or other dangerous area. A character who is awake but doing something else (reading, resting their mind to regain spells, meditating etc) would get checks with a -2 circumstance penalty. I don't think that's spelled out anywhere but I like it as a house rule as it means having someone "on watch" actually makes a difference and it means that characters aren't always on their gaurd 100% of the time.

So, yes, the elf could notice things while resting his mind but he wouldn't be doing as good a job as if he was paying attention.

Likewise, if a character is shopping in a "safe" part of town and talking to a shop keep they might get a similar modifier if no one was looking for trouble.

 

[Steverooo]

If the listener is distracted, they get a -5 (PHB:78). If they are asleep, it is -10 (last line of the Listen skill, PHB:79). Even a trancing Elf is an asset over a sleeping Human (although not over one standing guard, assuming equal skill).

IMHO, trancing is "walking in memory", and is akin to being "lost in thought". Same penalty as for a Wizard reading his spell book... YMMV.

 

[DiFier]

However, Spot is a passive skill as well. Which is the primary difference between Spot and Search...

I personally let them spot/listen during their 'non-trance meditation', just as I let a wizard with ring of sustenance do most of the watch. It may not be supported in the rules (and judging from that blurp, it isn't), but it makes things easier, and gives some benefit to the ring of sustenance outside of "Let's play attrition with the PCs", which simply isn't my style.

I'm a little confused by what you are saying about the ring of sustinence. Here's how we use the ring of sustanence. a human wizard with a ring of sustinence gains the benifits of 8 hours of sleep in 2 hours. so after sleeping for 2 hours they can then go on watch. an elven wizard still has to trance for 4 hours but then they are rested for 8 hours worth and can go on watch.

 

[Scion]

Somewhere it states that a arcane caster must 'rest' for 8 hours, and that even such a ring does not change this. Whether that is dumb or not is up to you, but most people seem to agree it is official.. somewhere..