Do nonmagical 1/day abilities damage suspension of disbelief?

[Agamon]

You mean like making a 3 pointer, throwing a long range TD pass, hitting a home run, or breaking out of the backfield when your line falls apart under a blitz and getting first down yardage? yeah no one has ever done those more then once a day.

They don't do them at will either.

 

[Nifft]

You're right about Defensive Roll and Stunning Fist: they are much less plausible, but they weren't a core part of the game's mechanics. That implausibility has become widespread in 4e.

Stunning Fist is the iconic Monk first level feat. It's a core part of a class, just like Rage is a core part of the Barbarian, and Defensive Roll is ... well, kinda sucky, and nobody ever used it.

I'll bet you can find a lot more limited use abilities in the Fighter splat books. (There may be more in Core, but it's not my peeve, so I'm not going to go digging.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jackelope King]

Well because some of them aren't dependent upon a specific type of opening, I mean how much more of an opening do you need if you have surprise in order to pull off these maneuvers? Your acting before your opponent is even aware of you...and yet if you've used that ability already it is unavailable. Lilke I said earlier, if your enemies can't defend themselves, it's still unavailable, and if your enemies line up to give you the best possible circumstances to use that power, again it's unavailable.

Because it's a matter of narrative control. A player only gets to declare once per day that the conditions are right at this particular time to use a certain power once per day. Maybe it's not about being flat-footed, but about having stepped forward with the left foot with the head turned left while your character has his weapon ready for an overhand attack with the sun to your back after switching your grip down half a hand.

The player decides that those conditions have been met and uses a special power. Just like wizards only get to give reality a swift kick in the rump once per day (settling instead for flicking its ear at will and smacking its cheek a few times per encounter), martial characters get to exploit the perfect situation once per day. In both cases, the player gets to decide when.

 

[Imaro]

A direct quote from the PHB is house rule? I need an update to my definition of that term.

What direct quote that says what you are arguing...not something similar (actually the opposite) that you can use to infer how to create your own rule. Where does it state that these powers can be used more than once a day as a rule?

 

[Rechan]

You know what breaks my suspension of disbelief? Turns, rounds, and initiative.

What is this bull about people taking turns in a systematic process that repeats itself over and over? Fights in real life are far more fluid. A guy could just attack over and over before the other person ever gets a hit in.

That's just not realistic.

Fights do not resemble 19th century style musket lines standing in rows taking turns firing.

 

[Agamon]

Okay, this is pointless. All I'm trying to say is, I can creatively explain any of these things into real world terms. If others can't, it's a shame.

 

[Rechan]

The better solution, Nifft, is "Never use 4Ed."

Hey, if that's your choice, go for it.

Those of us who aren't bothered by the issue will continue to play just fine.

I mean, why aren't we arguing why dragons can fly, considering the amount of pounds they have versus the power necessary for wings to lift them? Oh right. "Magic." How about wyverns, who aren't magical? "Magic." Giant insects, who can't possibly exist due to the weight of their bodies and the stress on the breathing system which thus couldn't support them? "Magic." Halflings, able to have a strength above say, 16, because no one that small should be able to lift that much? "Magic."

Why do we pick this issue to be the "I just can't get past it"? If everything up to this point is swallowable, and the line is here, then there's nothing I can tell you.

 

[Felix]

Because it's a matter of narrative control.

Exactly.

Game balance determines when I can do my schtick. Narrative control determines when I can do my stuff. It's metagame circumstances that make my fighter unable to Brute Strike twice in a day. And to those ends, it does its job. But there's no in-game reason. "No openings in-game" doesn't work for me, because you still can't Brute Strike a helpless opponent if you've already used it.

Stunning Fist is the iconic Monk first level feat. It's a core part of a class, just like Rage is a core part of the Barbarian, and Defensive Roll is ... well, kinda sucky, and nobody ever used it.

Nifft, I agreed with you in that post above: Stunning Fist and Defensive Roll are less plausable abilities. This means I do not want them common in my game.

I'll bet you can find a lot more limited use abilities in the Fighter splat books. (There may be more in Core, but it's not my peeve, so I'm not going to go digging.)

I bet you can too. But they're not part of the central game mechanics like At-Will, Encounter and Daily Exploits are for 4e. Would you agree to that?

 

[cangrejoide]

Hey, if that's your choice, go for it.

Those of us who aren't bothered by the issue will continue to play just fine.

I mean, why aren't we arguing why dragons can fly, considering the amount of pounds they have versus the needed lift required to lift them via wings? Oh right. "Magic." How about wyverns, who aren't magical? "Magic." Giant insects, who can't possibly exist due to the weight of their bodies and the stress on the breathing system which thus couldn't support them? "Magic."

Why do we pick this issue to be the "I just can't get past it"? If this is the sole thing which has stopped you, and you can't swallow it, then I don't know what to tell you.

I don't get it either. Its like buying a blue book, where everything within is blue and then bitching because something in it is blue.

I guess this just shows how desperate and irrational some people get.

 

[mmadsen]

They don't do them at will either.

Of course not, but let me reiterate:

No one said those maneuvers should be easy or that there should always be an opening for them. The problem is that the player has exactly one use per day (or per encounter), and he can choose when that one use works.

Ideally we'd have a system where opportunities opened up with some randomness, but without a lot of laborious rolling, adding modifiers, checking charts, etc., so that "cool" powers got used roughly once per day (or per encounter), but not exactly once per day (or per encounter) at the player's behest.​