Does your campaign have magic shops?

[The_Gneech]

Certainly having magic shops in a Lovecraftian magic world would be in the best case a horrifying proposition ("You mean there's a guy out there who COLLECTS this stuff?! AAAAHG!").

Wasn't that the basis for Friday the 13th: The Series?

-The Gneech ("Lovecraftian magic shops! With literary precedent! Heeheehee." )

 

[jmucchiello]

hah, yeah -- subtracting gold and saying "I bought the item at a magic shop!" is completely inappropriate unless your DM gives you the get-go.

hehe, but yes. "buying" an item by subtracting gold without DM permission... it's either rude, or a miscommunication, or an incorrect expectation. (Or some other category, but hey.)

Actually, I was going to complain that the first option was a bit limited compared to our current game. Whenever we get back to town after an adventure. Everyone can buy/sell anything they own and completely redo their magic provided they are in a town with support for their most expensive trade and that they spend one day per 10,000 gp involved in the trade. You have to supply the DM with a new character sheet before the next session. And because of the time constraint, you have to have a list of what order you perform you purchases as the DM may have the next start after three month or three days pass. (Usually the former just to avoid the players reach 20th level in 6 months game time problem.) This game also features rotating DMs so rather than approve magic item purchase by committee, we use the simpler trust method that people who've gamed for 12 years together can use. The three DMs can veto third party stuff when it off the wall in terms of power but only unanomously and I'm usually the one who ever expresses any concern over such things. (And in the end, let it go since, it's just a game.) So far nothing truly powerful beyond our expectations has happened.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Wasn't that the basis for Friday the 13th: The Series?
-The Gneech ("Lovecraftian magic shops! With literary precedent! Heeheehee." )

Yes, IIRC.
Although how it tied into the Voorhees family I have no idea.
Maybe thats what Mr. Voorhees was doing when he wasn't in town paying for his son's burial.

Stupid movie series anyway. Damn kids, drinking, having sex...stupid, stupid, stupid.
Damn Jason-hunter guy. What kind of idiot only carries one gun? And that not even a real gun, just a bolt-action. Furthermore, what kind of idiot doesn't TAKE HIS GUN WITH HIM wherever he goes?

 

[hong]

The poster made the term fantasy clear in his post. "Humans in recorded history" != a fantasy culture.

I think that the idea that a fantasy culture's mindset (D&D or otherwise) should mirror 21st century Earth (or even 13th century western Europe) to be somewhat silly. If we insist on looking at Earth culture, though, then look at 21st century Japanese culture, for example, and compare how different it is to other societies... The suggestion that one should "expect" something in a fantasy culture is dubious, at best. Rationality is not a prerequisite for a society.

I'm going to remember this argument the next time someone whinges about flying, teleporting, mind-reading people in D&D.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I voted for the fourth option (yes, with a quest or similar for powerful items), but it doesn't really reflect my preferences exactly.

I'm comfortable with the Dungeon Master's Guide's rules on settlement size, gold piece limit, class demographics, et cetera et cetera. However, I also don't really want the "Sharper Image" feel in-game.

Therefore, my compromise solution is as follows: Assuming that the community the PCs are shopping in has a character who can create the items they want to buy, they can obtain the items. However, no spellcaster has anything but the most useful and inexpensive items "in stock"; no matter who you are or what you want above the level of, say, a potion of cure light wounds or similar, you're buying on contract.

All significant purchases of magic items, therefore, are roleplayed (the same way I would want to roleplay the purchase of a ship, for example). The cheapest items can be dealt with rapidly - "Yes, the local priest has a few healing potions on hand and doesn't mind selling them to outsiders, since they're easy to make" - but everything else requires a wait of a few days, a few weeks, a few months - time which I'd say it was unlikely the PCs would want to spend idle.

In this way, you prevent the instant gratification of simply being able to buy whatever magic gear you want and thus prevent taking it for granted. Sure, the Magister of Blackfalls can craft you a sword capable of slaying the demon who haunts the town's mines, but what are you going to do in the time it takes him? People are still dying down there, but they can't afford to close the mine for a month, and even if they did the demon might steal into town for victims. Even when magic is a solution, it's not necessarily going to be an immediate solution.

As for extremely powerful items, the NPCs capable of making them are going to be named individuals with influence over the campaign world commensurate to their power - again, not a straightforward "magic shop", and presumably crafting items that require exotic components or for which they require the party to perform a service; and what, exactly, does a hero do when the only woman who can create an item desperately needed to repel Hell's invasions demands their support in her usurping bid for the throne?

Basically, what I'm saying is this: cheap items are gear, moderately powerful items are roleplaying opportunities and plot devices, and hugely powerful items are plot incarnate. The scale slides to accomodate the party; a +1 sword might be gear for a 15th-level character equipping the three captains who lead his followers, where it was a major investment early in his own career.

 

[vulcan_idic]

I had to vote for the first one, though I'd say it's not exactly right... In campaigns I am familiar with there usually aren't "magic shops" per se... that said magic is generally extremely common. Wand Shops are usually about as frequent as shoe stores in the present world, any armorer worth his salt will have a mage on the payroll and generally have at least a couple of suits of magical armor of the type they generally fashion (depending upon if they are leather workers, blacksmiths and so on) more in larger cities, and with any devisable suit of magical armor available either by ordering it from a larger, better stocked store nearby, or commissioning it's construction, depending upon the novelty of the construction. This is an example, but basically magic is as common in the worlds I usually play in as electricity is in ours, so magic items are about as common as electric items are in ours.

 

[Zappo]

There is no right or wrong solution to the commerce of magic items. It all depends on the campaign and its characteristics. On some of my campaigns, buying and selling magic items is very easy for anything save the most powerful and dangerous artefacts. On others, you can hardly buy potions and sales are equally difficult.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

The poster made the term fantasy clear in his post. "Humans in recorded history" != a fantasy culture.

Even in most fantasy worlds, humans are still basically humans though. And thus, some sort of trade activity is bound to spring up around any limited resource - such as magic items - unless someone is actively working to prevent that.

Sure, you can create a fantasy culture and simply say: "There is no magic item trade in this culture." But to come up with a believeable fantasy culture, you have to figure out why not.

I think that the idea that a fantasy culture's mindset (D&D or otherwise) should mirror 21st century Earth (or even 13th century western Europe) to be somewhat silly. If we insist on looking at Earth culture, though, then look at 21st century Japanese culture, for example, and compare how different it is to other societies...

Japan still had a merchant class, though - as has pretty much every human culture with permanent settlements.

 

[Faraer]

Basically, what I'm saying is this: cheap items are gear, moderately powerful items are roleplaying opportunities and plot devices, and hugely powerful items are plot incarnate.

Further, cheap and historyless items are *bookkeeping*. Items which are *just* a +1 bonus in an object make something a character can already do slightly more pronounced. They have no inherent interest and are just another number to add up. Shopping will never be dramatic, but shopping for a piece of flavourless bookkeeping like that is particular a waste of time.

Even if imaginary worlds were subject to free-market dogma, and what a nightmare that would be, in the pre-3E Realms and World of Greyhawk magic items just don't exist in high enough quantities for magic shops to exist; and they'd be too vulnerable to theft, etc. Occasional trading, sure, but even then it's mostly offscreen.

 

[Al]

Basically, what I'm saying is this: cheap items are gear, moderately powerful items are roleplaying opportunities and plot devices, and hugely powerful items are plot incarnate. The scale slides to accomodate the party; a +1 sword might be gear for a 15th-level character equipping the three captains who lead his followers, where it was a major investment early in his own career.

Whilst I can empathise with your premise, it's unfortunately this sort of non sequitur which led me to my notion of using logic to determine magical item availability in the first place. If a 3rd level character has to spend weeks going on quests, finding raw materials and venturing from place to place to find components, then finally seeking out a smith capable of crafting such a device and an iconoclastic wizard capable of imbuing - his +1 sword, it makes no sense that a dozen levels later he can just buy half a dozen off the racks for his henchmen. The inevitable question as to "Why couldn't I do that at level 3?" springs to mind. Magic shops don't have scanners to only let people of certain level buy certain items. If a +1 sword is available, it's available. Current PC level is irrelevant.