D&D General Don't Believe EVERYTHING concerning WOTC and D&D

If you're at this point in the argument ... in order (once again!) to say that lying is justified, maybe it's time to re-evaluate ... um ... who the baddie is?
Not actually what I said, if you can still hear me from up on that lofty soapbox.

Really all I'm saying is that even though Nero probably didn't actually fiddle while Rome burned, I neither feel sorry for him nor lament the regime change.

And that's it, I'm very done with this. If eight more people need to preach platitudes about lying to me (someone who is really not a liar) knock yourselves out. I've unfollowed the thread.
 

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eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
As for your truism, you said it is, I said it is not. If you want a citation for my view on it, then you need to provide a citation of your own saying it is true. It's a statement of opinion, what use is there in citing individual views on an opinion?
Well, I mean, you said that it's hurting my cause, factually.

That's a bit stronger than simply stating your view on the matter. So, I'm waiting for objective factual validation of your position that it's hurting the cause.

I get that you don't like it, but if you're saying that it can't be effective with a definite statement like that, you should probably back that up.
 



Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Well, I mean, you said that it's hurting my cause, factually.
Well, it is a fact though. If one side starts spreading misinformation and falsehoods, it will lose support from people who otherwise might have been supportive and/or sympathetic. That's always been true.

So even though Hasbro has done a whole lot to earn ire and distrust, if people against Hasbro start lying about them, people in the middle or who aren't vested will step away. You're seeing an example of it here. They are literally telling you that's what is happening to them. A person who would otherwise support me as a 3PP stepping back because others are willing to make up falsehoods just to "get back at them".
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I would counter with, "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."

You'd think that no one had ever heard of Rawls' Veil of Ignorance.

Also? I am sadly unsurprised that there are people that think that it's some big deal (a "lofty soapbox,") to be ... against lying.

Seriously? I didn't realize that, "I think lying for clicks is bad and we shouldn't approve it," was some kind of crazy position to take.
 

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Seriously? I didn't realize that, "I think lying for clicks is bad and we shouldn't approve it," was some kind of crazy position to take.
See, I think this is where some of us, I think, are talking past each other. Nobody in this thread is "approving" of it or endorsing it. Commenting on the possible efficacy of something already happening as it relates to shareholder behavior is not endorsing or approval.

Mentioning that you also don't feel particular empathy towards a bad actor either is also unrelated commentary.

It has no effect on what's happening that I don't personally feel sorry for Hasbro.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
See, I think this is where some of us, I think, are talking past each other. Nobody in this thread is "approving" of it or endorsing it. Commenting on the possible efficacy of something already happening as it relates to shareholder behavior is not endorsing or approval.

Mentioning that you also don't feel particular empathy towards a bad actor either is also unrelated commentary.

It has no effect on what's happening that I don't personally feel sorry for Hasbro.

See, I don't approve of murdering children. I just wanted to make sure we all know that all those children that get killed? Well, if you kill enough of them, it's going to pressure Hasbro. I mean ... you think the shareholders are going to keep up the support when there is a bunch of child slayin' going on, and it's tied to Hasbro?

Again- not "approving" or endorsing the wanton child homicide. Just commenting on the possible efficacy of all those children gettin' killed as it related to shareholder approval. Seriously- the bad actor is Hasbro, and I don't feel sorry for Hasbro. So if other people are defenstratin' some kids, and Hasbro suffers, who am I to criticize that, amirite?
 


Azzy

KMF DM
Yeah. I've been avoiding most of the social media deluge and all the new accusations. I think it distracts from the real issue—that WotC trying to revoke the OGL 1.0a harms 3PP and their livelihoods. We need to stay on target.
 

Stormonu

Legend
I have a general dislike for anyone whose willing to spew lies or disinformation to promote their cause, whatever that cause may be.

But, I've been hot enough under the collar to fall for those lies and such, which only makes me even angrier when the truth comes out - regardless of which side did it. Don't do that, it weakens your own position. Take, and keep the high ground.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
. Commenting on the possible efficacy of something already happening as it relates to shareholder behavior is not endorsing or approval.

With respect, it comes across as apologia, by softening the position against it - "Well, yeah, it is lying, but there's a silver lining to the lie, in that it seems good for us at the moment!"

Mentioning that you also don't feel particular empathy towards a bad actor either is also unrelated commentary.

It may be less unrelated than you think - it isn't like we are from the planet Vulcan. I cannot speak about what's in your head specifically. But broadly, for humans, our emotions - like the emotions that come from empathy - matter in our decision making.

Decisions like, "Will I accept the act of lying in the middle of this argument?"
 

That's a bit stronger than simply stating your view on the matter. So, I'm waiting for objective factual validation of your position that it's hurting the cause.
Because I'm not supporting it. And interacting with you is actually pushing me farther and farther away from supporting those you associate with. And therefore I stand closer to those you oppose, and am therefore helping to work against your cause. Keep going if you want...
 


Also that's actually not as unforseeable as someone might think, if they failed to appreciate the high degree of overlap between someone being a youtuber in the D&D space and someone having a 3rd party D&D product.
But the independents only ever do things out of the love of their heart and not out of any profit motive at all!

I mean, it's not like they are also a business who are generally gonna be making good business decisions!
 


MGibster

Legend
I swear I keep thinking we're about to see a twist like we saw with Rise of the Skywalker. It will be revealed that Lorraine Williams is behind all of this. She created NuTSR then maneuvered WotC to rescind the OGL in some plot that isn't cohesive and feels like it was made up as they went along.
 


Clint_L

Hero
I swear I keep thinking we're about to see a twist like we saw with Rise of the Skywalker. It will be revealed that Lorraine Williams is behind all of this. She created NuTSR then maneuvered WotC to rescind the OGL in some plot that isn't cohesive and feels like it was made up as they went along.
Reading Slaying the Dragon and Game Wizards (both great; I recommend!) really changed how I feel about Lorraine Williams. I give her credit for buying TSR an extra decade. Also, Gygax losing control of TSR was totally on Gygax. She wasn't great and never really cared to learn about her company's product, but I don't think she was a monster. I certainly wouldn't lump her in with NuTSR.
 

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Because I'm not supporting it. And interacting with you is actually pushing me farther and farther away from supporting those you associate with. And therefore I stand closer to those you oppose, and am therefore helping to work against your cause. Keep going if you want...
That's not exactly proof that it isn't effective at agitating shareholders though, now is it?

Anyway, I'm gonna mute the thread and do some less controversial stuff, like clubing baby seals or something.
 

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