D&D General Don't Believe EVERYTHING concerning WOTC and D&D

You would feel angry at the CEO at Hasbro because people on youtube, in order to gain clicks during an unrelated controversy, decided to spread lies?
It's not an unrelated controversy, it's a separate controversy related to the general ire caused by an inciting incident that only happened a few days ago and was squarely the fault of management. Yes, I personally would remain angry with management in that sort of scenario, especially since they just seem to be unimpressive management in general.
 

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iserith

Magic Wordsmith
"Winning," whatever that means in context, isn't worth it if you have to lie to get there.

Don't lie. Don't spread the lies of others. Call out the lies of your own "side." If you yourself are wrong, admit it and ask for forgiveness.

When someone genuinely apologizes, including the face of a corporation, accept it and move forward. That's better for both them and you, psychologically, and everyone else too.

Only you can control you, so do the right thing and set a good example to others by being truthful and waiting on the facts before jumping to conclusions when controversy arises. The likes, clicks, and shares are not worth tarnishing yourself with lies.
 

Dias Ex Machina

Publisher / Game Designer
"If some made up accusations help keep the pressure on it could well prove to be for the best."

Read it however you want. Lies ... they are lies. They are not justified. The road to hell is paved .... blah blah blah.

Whenever anyone, on any topic, gets to the point where they are justifying complete falsehoods because they think that their cause is so righteous ... I recommend a serious look in the mirror.

Righteous causes do not require falsehoods to be successful. And if they do, maybe the cause was never that righteous to begin with.
So true. I lost friends last year when they were sharing false pro-Ukraine posts. I was trying to explain that sharing lies, even if they are comfortable, hurts the war in the long run. They did not agree, with some claiming that they "choose to believe it".
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
It's not an unrelated controversy, it's a separate controversy related to the general ire caused by an inciting incident that only happened a few days ago and was squarely the fault of management. Yes, I personally would remain angry with management in that sort of scenario, especially since they just seem to be unimpressive management in general.

Again ... it's a lie.

As much as you are trying to dance around it, you are trying to justify people spreading lies.

I will never, ever get behind that. As to your theory that these lies are "good," for some reason, have you not noticed that there are a lot of people that aren't happy with this? Because ... wait for it ... LIES?

ETA- and finally, why not look at what the actual designers (and former designers) are saying? Do they agree with you? You can actually look!
 

In the name of the good sense we should ask a piece of prudence and serenity about this trouble.

We aren't members of a cult with a blind faith. We aren't going to buy the new Stacey Malibu (the doll from the Simpson cartoon) only because this has got a new hat.

Their work is about to sell the things we want, not to change our will about we want to buy or spend in . They are who have to understand our ideas and thoughts. We have been players or fandoms for lots of years, when it was a strange boardgame for "freaks". The social pressure can't work in the same way than the rest. Then we would be enjoy the same hobbys than the rest of ordinary people.

This is not about a product, this is also the trust by the consumers and the level of sactifaction. The prestige of a brand is not so simple as spending more for advertising.

I suspect this is more by fault of Hasbro's CEOs than WotC's team. This should realise this could be unwellcome by the players because these are more used with the contact of these. They are sharks, I don't mind, but they should understand the rules of this ecosystem. This is different, and not everything works in the same way.
 

People lying on youtube about, inter alia, the survey process is a forseeable consequence of Hasbro trying to update the license and get rid of the open license?
Also that's actually not as unforseeable as someone might think, if they failed to appreciate the high degree of overlap between someone being a youtuber in the D&D space and someone having a 3rd party D&D product.
 

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
We aren't members of a cult with a blind faith.
Speak for yourself.

Long live the new flesh!

Are You Ready Transform GIF by Maudit
 

I guess maybe I'm idealistic, but I really believe that misinformation, spin, and intentional lies are always destructive in the long run.
Believe it or not, I 100% agree with you on this. I have said, more than once, that the truth cannot be defended by falsehood--doing so is always wrong.

If it's BS when Hasbro misinforms and spins, it's BS when we do it, too.
Completely agreed.

However, when Hasbro(/WotC) has already committed a grave error, one they tried to keep secret, the ball is in their court. There will be speculation and falsehoods and spin-doctoring. If they are to correct their mistakes and restore healthy interactions with players and creators, it is their responsibility to communicate to us in a way that is clear, honest, forthright, and specific. They have refused to do this, and have engaged in spin-doctoring of their own, giving non-pologies and platitudes.

It may well be the case that half the accusations are dead wrong, and if so, that's a serious problem. However, that problem does not, in any way, lessen Hasbro/WotC's burden.
 

Again ... it's a lie.

As much as you are trying to dance around it, you are trying to justify people spreading lies.
Actually I am trying to justify why I don't care about this particular lie being spread, which ultimately, once again, is that WotC, as an organization run by fools, brought it upon themself. They dug their lying grave and they're going to get buried in lies, and while I have no interest in helping to spread those lies I'm shedding tears for them... and I'm a Hasbro shareholder.

And it might well work out for the better. It also might not. The world is more complicated than platitudes about the evils of lying would have us believe.

I feel justified in that stance, no dancing required.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Actually I am trying to justify why I don't care about this particular lie being spread, which ultimately, once again, is that WotC, as an organization run by fools, brought it upon themself. They dug their lying grave and they're going to get buried in lies, and while I have no interest in helping to spread those lies I'm shedding tears for them... and I'm a Hasbro shareholder.

And it might well work out for the better. It also might not. The world is more complicated than platitudes about the evils of lying would have us believe.

I feel justified in that stance, no dancing required.

Just as an FYI ... I don't know of a single instance of, "He/She/They were asking for it," that I have ever approved of.

If you're at this point in the argument ... in order (once again!) to say that lying is justified, maybe it's time to re-evaluate ... um ... who the baddie is?
 


Oofta

Legend
It's not an unrelated controversy, it's a separate controversy related to the general ire caused by an inciting incident that only happened a few days ago and was squarely the fault of management. Yes, I personally would remain angry with management in that sort of scenario, especially since they just seem to be unimpressive management in general.
This is like people justifying shoplifting because "it's just a corporation". It's still stealing. Knowingly telling others false information is still lying. Justify it all you want, it doesn't change anything.

Don't lead people to go down the road of "both sides do it" because that just hurts the people who have legitimate concerns. When you throw mud, you lose ground.
 


We're just noting that the misinformation which is out there now already from other actors, isn't exactly hurting our cause.
Yes it is. I don't support #OpenDnD as much as I believe in it because of the lies being spread and the hate mongering occuring on OpenDnD's behalf. It's hurting your cause, factually.
Turnaround being fair play is also a very old adage that's considered a truism, right?
Nope. Not considered a truism by people I know that actually understand actions and consequences. It sounds good, but it too is simple wrong.
 

I have a hard time believing many of these claims.

But a month ago I would have said there was no way WotC was going to try to revoke the OGL after spending two decades telling us they couldn't do it. Unfortunately, when you damage your credibility they way they have and prove the worst speculation about you was right all along, it just opens the door for this type of stuff.
 

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Yes it is. I don't support #OpenDnD as much as I believe in it because of the lies being spread and the hate mongering occuring on OpenDnD's behalf. It's hurting your cause, factually.

Nope. Not considered a truism by people I know that actually understand actions and consequences. It sounds good, but it too is simple wrong.
I get that you disagree and all that, but you know, citation needed.
 

I get that you disagree and all that, but you know, citation needed.
Citation for both of those are me.

As I said, I do not support OpenDnD as much as it deserves because there are many people who do support it that are spreading misinformation and lies. I do not associate with hate mongers and liars, therefore I will not associate with OpenDnD. Even though I believe in the core of the statement. Now, I admit that the behavior that prevents me from associating and openly supporting OpenDnD might attract other to it's cause because of the hatemongering and lies. Maybe that more than offsets my support, but in doing so it just provides more justification for me not supporting a group that tends more towards hate and lies.

So, continue to support the growth of hate mongering and lies at the risk of becoming a group of all hate mongers and liars. And which will then be easily dismissed by any objective observer.

As for your truism, you said it is, I said it is not. If you want a citation for my view on it, then you need to provide a citation of your own saying it is true. It's a statement of opinion, what use is there in citing individual views on an opinion?
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Okay...so why even post about it if "LET THEM BURN" is your conclusion? Where does the situation go from there? If you're done, then be done, and bless.

But actual 3PP don't have that luxury. They need to figure out what the path is going forward, and a torrent of spin from WotC and misinformation and vitriol from all over the internet is not going to help that process forward for them, or for those of us who aren't going to walk away from decades invested in this game because of this situation. We want to fix things.
This. As a 3PP, I am very much vested. But I don't have the time bandwidth to keep up on all the conversations, especially when it's misinformation and knee-jerk emotional reactions. I really want to get an accurate picture of what's going on, and what my future looks like. That's hard when all of the conversations are filled with vitriol and hyperbole.
 



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