D&D General Don't Believe EVERYTHING concerning WOTC and D&D

[Snarf Zagyg]

Yeah. To clarify, I'm not encouraging people to believe nonsense. I just believe the resulting chaos may not be the worst thing in this instance, and have no pity for the target of the nonsense.

So I'm going to start off by pointing out something .... with a little nod to an old movie ...

Hasbro is made out of people. They're making our corporations out of people!

Ahem. Look- I get that it's easy to hate on evil corporations. But a lot of these rumors and, worse, deliberate misinformation and lies? They affect real people! How would you feel if you were one of the many designers who have worked on D&D to know that people were out there lying about your use of the feedback surveys?

You don't have to guess- the designers have been telling you how they feel.

And in addition to the harm that these lies can cause real people (not just a faceless corporation), it does harm to the product going forward. Because a lot of people will just remember this swirl of lies ... so let's imagine that at some point we do manage to move forward on the licensing issue. Well, the harm done to the surveys and feedback ... that still exists. For no reason.

So I am not a big fan of the "Let it all rain down so youtubers can get their CLICK ON YO, and it doesn't matter who it hurts, because HASBRO SUCKS" philosophy.

Lies are lies. They cause harm. Even if, perhaps especially if, they seem like they are useful to "a cause." It's really easy to justify things ... but that is precisely why we shouldn't. As far as I know, most systems of morality and ethics don't say, "Don't lie, unless you don't pity for the target of the lie, in which case let loose 'cuz it's all good!"

 

[eyeheartawk]

Lies are lies. They cause harm. Even if, perhaps especially if, they seem like they are useful to "a cause." It's really easy to justify things ... but that is precisely why we shouldn't. As far as I know, most systems of morality and ethics don't say, "Don't lie, unless you don't pity for the target of the lie, in which case let loose 'cuz it's all good!"

To be fair, nobody by my reading here, is advocating for the lies or advocates for spreading them. We're just noting that the misinformation which is out there now already from other actors, isn't exactly hurting our cause.

That, I think, is the factor that keeps our hands clean here.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

To be fair, nobody by my reading here, is advocating for the lies or advocates for spreading them. Just, that the misinformation which is out there now already from other actors, isn't exactly hurting our cause.

That, I think, is the factor that keeps our hands clean here.

"If some made up accusations help keep the pressure on it could well prove to be for the best."

Read it however you want. Lies ... they are lies. They are not justified. The road to hell is paved .... blah blah blah.

Whenever anyone, on any topic, gets to the point where they are justifying complete falsehoods because they think that their cause is so righteous ... I recommend a serious look in the mirror.

Righteous causes do not require falsehoods to be successful. And if they do, maybe the cause was never that righteous to begin with.

 

[Umbran]

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind and all that, yeah.

But it feels great.

It feels great. For now.
But, as a child after Halloween can tell you, things that feel great now can have... consequences that you regret later.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People need to stop trying to dig for dirt what the actual turd is right on top.

Stay focused on the OGL and go looking for more reasons to hate them after this is said and done.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

How would you feel if you were one of the many designers who have worked on D&D to know that people were out there lying about your use of the feedback surveys?

Under these circumstances I would mostly just remain angry at the chuckleheads at the top, who have brought this all down upon me and my coworkers.

 

[Umbran]

We're just noting that the misinformation which is out there now already from other actors, isn't exactly hurting our cause.

Oh?

As if we haven't seen recent versions of folks who should have been in common cause splintered and divided over misinformation?

 

[eyeheartawk]

"If some made up accusations help keep the pressure on it could well prove to be for the best."

Read it however you want. Lies ... they are lies. They are not justified. The road to hell is paved .... blah blah blah.

Whenever anyone, on any topic, gets to the point where they are justifying complete falsehoods because they think that their cause is so righteous ... I recommend a serious look in the mirror.

Righteous causes do not require falsehoods to be successful. And if they do, maybe the cause was never that righteous to begin with.

I get it, I really do.

The decision, ultimately, is personal one and we each draw our own lines morally and ethically. I don't judge you for feeling that way.

Again, I didn't spread or make up any lies or am knowingly spreading them, just as an observer remarking on the strategic impact.

Though, the reason I feel the way I do is because I don't believe in bringing a knife to a gunfight. We didn't show up and try to blow up the OGL through lies, doubletalk and distortions of fact.

Turnaround being fair play is also a very old adage that's considered a truism, right?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Under these circumstances I would mostly just remain angry at the chuckleheads at the top, who have brought this all down upon me and my coworkers.

Really?

You would feel angry at the CEO at Hasbro because people on youtube, in order to gain clicks during an unrelated controversy, decided to spread lies?

Just to make sure we are on the same page-

People lying on youtube about, inter alia, the survey process is a forseeable consequence of Hasbro trying to update the license and get rid of the open license?

I think we may have different definitions of forseeable. I also don't see any of the designers (or former designers) who have talked about this blaming Hasbro for the lies being spread.

 

[Clint_L]

Yeah, the only voices that Hasbro really cares about are those of its major shareholders. The more this story breaks containment and causes negative noise, the more it affects the stock price. Once that happens strongly and for a somewhat sustained duration the shareholders will agitate and what they're doing here will not be deemed worth it anymore.

In that sense, cynically, even untrue rumors and speculation that get people engaged are good for us. I'm not really advocating for that, per se, but I also don't feel bad for Hasbro, you know?

I guess maybe I'm idealistic, but I really believe that misinformation, spin, and intentional lies are always destructive in the long run. I actually think it's a disaster for society when everyone just gets all wrapped up in their knowledge bubbles, so that they never even have to worry about questioning what they hear or read. Every one is just going around feeling so right all the time, and not pausing to ask the most important question there is: "gee...what if I am wrong?"

And I get that there might appear to be short term advantages to misinformation and the outrage it produces. That's why politicians use it. But in the long run, it completely poisons the well.

In this situation, we aren't going to get a resolution if the short term goal is to turn Hasbro into monsters, through lies and misinformation if necessary. Because why would you negotiate with monsters? Everyone will just get entrenched, Hasbro will figure there's nothing left to lose and drop the metaphorical bomb on open content, and we all lose. Especially those who rely on making 3PP for their livelihood.

If it's BS when Hasbro misinforms and spins, it's BS when we do it, too.