Don't fall!

[Quidam]

simultanaity

I see both sides of the argument here. However...

And extrapolating further, creatures who should drop to the ground because they died, drop on their turn.

That's not really an extrapolation, as falling to the ground is a free action and doesn't count against a character's movement. At what point does a jump become a fall? When do you start to get the free movement?

fall immadiately, this isn't a Road Runner cartroon

I think what a lot of folks are forgetting here (and that this quote exemplifies) is that the combat is only being simulated by turns. There's no pause between your turn and your next turn while everyone gets to take theirs. It's all smooth and simultaneous.

 

[Bad Paper]

Also note that we use a more deadly falling variant. In addition to the damage from falling (30d6 maximum, as the rule above) you must make a Fortitude save or die - DC of 2 per 10 feet fallen - maximum of DC 60.

WOW You are mean. What's wrong with just using the Massive Damage rule? I DMed a fighter that fell 150' and was going to get up a walk away, but ooops! That pesky MD killed him! I thought that I would hate MD, and balked at using it, but it's really handy for killing those unkillable characters.

just one rat b@stard DM's point of view

 

[Dark Dragon]

I think what a lot of folks are forgetting here (and that this quote exemplifies) is that the combat is only being simulated by turns. There's no pause between your turn and your next turn while everyone gets to take theirs. It's all smooth and simultaneous.

Granted. But there are some ways to bend the rules to a character's most profit.
Take the wizard from my example. He starts his turn knowing that the Fly spell is gone. He may simply cast a second one without any problems since he is actually not falling. If he would try to cast a spell DURING a fall (because his fall starts BEFORE he could try any action), I (as the DM) would call for a concentration check due to vigorous motion.

Second point, Philip already said it, a character "hanging" in mid-air simply could delay until someone grasps him and pulls him into safety. This is legal if you treat falling as a part of your movement, but it makes barely sense.

Third point: Why is Featherfall an immediate action and not a swift one? Note: This spell may be cast only on falling obejects/creatures to have effect. A not flying, but not (yet) falling wizard is not a legal target for Featherfall...

This leads to my question: When does a character fall? You could rule it that he falls at the beginning of his turn (before could take any actions). But a player may argue that movement is normally done during a character's turn and this may include falling (there are some exceptions like being grabbed by a flying dragon, being bull-rushed,...).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Take the wizard from my example. He starts his turn knowing that the Fly spell is gone. He may simply cast a second one without any problems since he is actually not falling. If he would try to cast a spell DURING a fall (because his fall starts BEFORE he could try any action), I (as the DM) would call for a concentration check due to vigorous motion.

Not actually. At the beginning of his turn, he starts falling (similar in timing to when a Summon Monster spell would expire). Continue with concentration checks as appropriate.

What this actually allows is the other characters engaged in battle to hear the wizard yell, "They dispelled my ability to fly!" and do something about it, rather than watch helplessly as the wizard plummets to his death.

Second point, Philip already said it, a character "hanging" in mid-air simply could delay until someone grasps him and pulls him into safety. This is legal if you treat falling as a part of your movement, but it makes barely sense.

Which, by the way, is exactly the same as it is treated using the jumping rules. I have 30' of movement. I move 50' towards a 20' chasm, and jump it. Because I can only move 10' more this turn, I end my turn in the air halfway across the chasm. On my next turn, I have to use a move-action to complete the jump. But, if I delay, then I get to spend the next several rounds hanging in midair.

The simple answer to this is, "You can't delay when you would otherwise be subject to falling." There, no problems.

Third point: Why is Featherfall an immediate action and not a swift one? Note: This spell may be cast only on falling obejects/creatures to have effect. A not flying, but not (yet) falling wizard is not a legal target for Featherfall...

Because it affects:

Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One Medium or smaller freefalling object or creature/level, no two of which may be more than 20 ft. apart

Thus, you can featherfall other people on their turns, as they are falling.

EDIT:

Alternatively, using the originally proposed Wizard scenario, his Fly spell has been dispelled. Presumably, this happened on the dispeller's turn. Thus, the Wizard is automatically going to fall as soon as his turn in the initiative order comes up, and before he can otherwise act. So, instead of waiting, he casts the Featherfall spell during the dispeller's turn (or, more intelligently, right before the turn of the person right before him in initiative order), as soon as the Fly spell is dispelled.

 

[IcyCool]

The simple answer to this is, "You can't delay when you would otherwise be subject to falling." There, no problems.

That would make a fine house rule.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That would make a fine house rule.

I'm not entirely certain it is.

SPECIAL INITIATIVE ACTIONS
Here are ways to change when you act during combat by altering your place in the initiative order.

DELAY
By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.

In other words, you cannot delay until it is your turn. Delaying is *an* action, though it is not typed as a Standard action (as ready is), a Move action, or a Free action. And, because of:

If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.

Thus, if you're in the air, you cannot delay (an action) because your next action on either this turn or your next turn must be a move action.

Therefore, you cannot delay in midair.

 

[ThirdWizard]

So, instead of waiting, he casts the Featherfall spell during the dispeller's turn (or, more intelligently, right before the turn of the person right before him in initiative order), as soon as the Fly spell is dispelled.

How can he target himself with a featherfall if he isn't falling yet?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How can he target himself with a featherfall if he isn't falling yet?

He is falling. As soon as the fly spell is dispelled, he begins falling.

We just don't mechanically resolve the distance he's fallen until his turn in the initiative order comes up, because of the weird way in which real-world simultaneity interacts with turn-based calculations.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Ahh... Abstract it. Sounds good.

 

[IcyCool]

I'm not entirely certain it is.



In other words, you cannot delay until it is your turn. Delaying is *an* action, though it is not typed as a Standard action (as ready is), a Move action, or a Free action. And, because of:



Thus, if you're in the air, you cannot delay (an action) because your next action on either this turn or your next turn must be a move action.

Therefore, you cannot delay in midair.

Good point. While I'm sure someone could argue that Delay isn't an action, it is listed under "SPECIAL INITIATIVE ACTIONS". So, do characters only fall on their turn? I'm not sure.