Don't fall!

[Quinnman]

Well if a monk makes a run and moves 200 ft. he does it completly on his turn. It takes him 6 seconds to do that, but a fighter could't charge him or cross his path at half his movement. There is no interception possible. Why should it be different for the falling character ?

The magic fails at the dispellers turn, not thereafter.
You fall from a simple trip attack immediatly (and receive the extra attack from improved trip).
Now if you fall from greater height it happens to wait until you can react ? No surprise that your mighty magic fails ?
Why doesn't the tripped character get a chance that anyone bullrushes the evil tripping opponent out of reach for his improved trip attack.
What about the bullrushed character ?
I always thought the movement that happens on your turn is willing movement. If it is a surprising / unwilling movement it happens immediatly.

I'm with the falling immediatly faction
Fly is a good spell .... as long as you wear a ring of featherfall, prepared a featherfall spell or don't fly higher than you can fall and stay alive.

EDIT: if some ally is near the path of the falling character (5 ft) I would grant him an AoO to catch him from falling. That's what AoO's are for. To react to something when it's not your turn.

Must say I agree with this... Especially like the AoO approach... w00t!

I think in all the years I´ve played rpg the longest fall ever has been around 50 ft... falling that distance would take about 1.8 sec...
As DM I would rule from situation to situation... maybe that daring airborn rescue could be doable in some situations

 

[Felix]

Every action in every initiative count takes place during the same six seconds.

And yet some of these actions are begun and completed before others. This is not a simultaneous game we're playing here.

isoChron has it right... A wizard's guard cannot move 5 feet to be able to attack the monk who is moving 90 feet to strike the wizard, even though the "simultaneous" actions would lead you to think that the guard would see him coming. That's the way it works for horizontal movement, which is by far a much more common occurance in gameplay, so if you want continuity, then apply the same rules to vertical movement: it happens before folks can react.

Besides, falling is not an action that a person can take... it just happens to them. They still get a Standard and a Move Equivalent when their turn comes around, so why should you think that falling has to happen it's their turn?

 

[rushlight]

I think in all the years I´ve played rpg the longest fall ever has been around 50 ft... falling that distance would take about 1.8 sec...
As DM I would rule from situation to situation... maybe that daring airborn rescue could be doable in some situations

Well, it's occured several times in my campaign - when the players visited the Plane of Air and once on the Plane of Chaos. The Plane of Chaos was the most interesting - a player was "falling" forward at full speed... when the air became solid rock. *BLAM* - dead PC. Needless to say, they took things slower after that, ensuring that they could control their surroundings while moving.

 

[Philip]

I just play with a very simple rule of thumb, which works admirable well in avoiding weird situations:

1. Voluntary movement happens on your turn.
2. Involuntary movement happens immediately.

Being Bull Rushed? Move immediately.
Being pushed off a cliff by use of telekinesis? Move immediately.
Jumping down a cliff? Move on your turn.
Levitate spell dispelled? Move immediately.
Riding as a passenger on a Wagon? Move on the turn of the person steering the wagon.
Steering a wagon? Move on your turn.
Flying griffon making a diving attack? Moves on its turn.
Flying griffon failing save versus Hold Monster? Moves immediately.

Limiting the distance you fall (either voluntary or involuntary) in a round seems to work well.

 

[Philip]

Now, unfortunately for Wizard, enemy #1 dispels his Fly spell in round 2. If Wizard falls during the "not his round" period, how far does he fall during 1's turn? How far during 2's turn? Etc. If the answer is, "He falls the entire distance during 1's turn," then that's 500' feet immediately, and no one - 2-9 - gets a chance to react. If the answer is, "He falls 500' / number of people remaining before his turn + him," then he'd fall 50' per person acting.

He falls immediately on the turn that his fly spell is dispelled. But like Skip suggests, limit it to 50 ft. in the first round. He falls again on point were enemy #1 would have gotten his turn.

However, what happens if several new combatants enter the fray after 8's turn, but before 9's turn? Does the wizard's rate of fall change?

Nothing happens. The relative position of enemy #1 dispel in the initiative order with regard to the wizard doesn't change.

In other words, I think the math gets more complicated than it really needs to be if you try to divide up the fall, and it still hoses the Wizard if #9 dispels him.

Dividing the fall into portions that occur during other people's initiative order is indeed a bad idea.

So, I rule that the Wizard falls on his turn because, otherwise, people falling less than 500' automatically hit the ground before anything else can happen - including daring, midair rescues by their pegasus-riding allies, and that's the kind of stuff I like to see happen in my D&D games.

Fair enough. I just don't see why we should treat a telekinetic blast differently from a reverse gravity. I think reverse gravity should act immediately, and not wait until the turn of the target comes around. But doing it your way seems simple enough as well.

 

[Trainz]

On the subject of Flying:

“The first part is easy. All it requires is simply the ability to throw yourself forward with all your weight, and the willingness not to mind that it’s going to hurt. That is, it’s going to hurt if you fail to miss the ground.

“Most people fail to miss the ground and if they are really trying properly, the likelihood is that they will fail to miss it fairly hard. Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.

“One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It’s no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won’t. You have to have your attention suddenly distracted by something else when you’re halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground or about how much it’s going to hurt if you fail to miss it.

“It is notoriously difficult to prize your attention away from these three things during the split second you have at your disposal. Hence most people’s failure, and their eventual disillusionment with this exhilarating and spectacular sport.

“If, however, you are lucky enough to have your attention momen-tarily distracted at the crucial moment by, say, a gorgeous pair of legs (tentacles, pseudopodia, according to phyllum and/or personal inclination) or a bomb going off in your vicinity, or by suddenly spotting an extremely rare species of beetle crawling along a nearby twig, then in your astonish-ment you will miss the ground completely and remain bobbing just a few inches above it in what might seem to be a slightly foolish manner.

“This is a moment for superb and delicate concentration.”

- Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

[ARandomGod]

We have always played it at the start of the falling character's round. Whether or not this is correct, I'm not 100% sure; but I will try and find out.

EDIT: I can't find anything in the SRD that says either way. I guess it all depends on if you want to be a Rat B@stard DM or not.

If you have a character fall immediately, there is virtually no chance of recovery. If you want to give at least a chance, go with 'at the start of their round'.

Regardless, from Skip's All about Movement (Part 5) article - Stalling and Freefalling:

I couldn't find anything either way myself. And I recently looked. I think, however, that you pretty much *have* to say that it starts at their round. However, they don't get a standard action until they've fallen at least 150 feet... OK, that point where you can act is obviously up to interpretation as well.

Here's the thing. If I jump, and the distance I am trying to jump is greater than the distance remaining in my movement for the turn, I end my turn suspended in midair, and continue the jump on my next turn.

Extrapolating from that rule, flying creatures who fall, fall on their own turn.

I think this is excellent reasoning, a good place to extrapolate the rules from.

fall immadiately, this isn't a Road Runner cartroon

But it IS! If it's not for you, then you clearly aren't playing by the rules, wherein someone moves their movement, then stops, then continues on their next turn. Rules by which a dragon flies to exactly the opening in the window, stops... looks around... debates for several seconds... sends a blast of breath through the window... and then hands in midair while those inside (and outside) get to respond to him.

 

[Felix]

wherein someone moves their movement, then stops, then continues on their next turn.

Falling is not an action one takes, it happens when it happens.

Jumping (long jump and high jump) is an action [part of a MEA], and does happen on your turn.

Big difference I think.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Wow, lots of ideas to rule a fall. Hmm, time to pick the best...or time to mix? Oh well...

Patryn's rulings look very nice and I tend to agree with most of the arguments. Especially that aerial combat is not reduced to either stay on the mount (or protect a Fly spell) or fall off and down into the hands of Death.

Skip's ruling that a falling guy immediately falls 50 ft. is a nice option,too. At higher level it is not deadly, but with possible nice/dangerous side effects (melee combat with Nightcrawler isn't something a wizard should try...). The guy falls the rest of the distance (was it 500 ft.?) right before his turn, allowing other characters to act (Featherfall, Shapechange into a wyvern and snatch the guy out of the air, Telekinesis, or something like that).

isoChron, thanks for the AoO idea. We should consider it as a house rule in 4.0.

I just play with a very simple rule of thumb, which works admirable well in avoiding weird situations:

1. Voluntary movement happens on your turn.
2. Involuntary movement happens immediately.

Being Bull Rushed? Move immediately.
Being pushed off a cliff by use of telekinesis? Move immediately.
Jumping down a cliff? Move on your turn.
Levitate spell dispelled? Move immediately.
Riding as a passenger on a Wagon? Move on the turn of the person steering the wagon.
Steering a wagon? Move on your turn.
Flying griffon making a diving attack? Moves on its turn.
Flying griffon failing save versus Hold Monster? Moves immediately.

Limiting the distance you fall (either voluntary or involuntary) in a round seems to work well.

Agreed. Otherwise, some odd situations could arise, e.g. if you roll different initiatives for a paladin and his mount...

 

[Egres]

Guys, are you taking into account that if you Dispel a Fly spell the subject will not fall, but float for a few rounds?