Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

[DeviousQuail]

Sure. Again, these aren't real things, they're merely the product of decisions made by human writers, and they decided Psycho Mom trope for Wanda and Strange being able to handle it.

I wonder how people who have no experience with the comics but love the MCU see this; for a lot of us, we know Wanda's comic history, so her turning heel is inline with what we know (we also know what the Darkhold is), but for someone who only knows the character through Olsen's performance, I wonder...

This thread was the first place I heard about sexism. None of the 8ish people I know that have seen it brought it up when we talked about the movie. I was also able to find numerous reviews that brought it up though so it is something people are seeing. Unfortunately, they were just movie reviews so they couldn't exactly deep dive into the subject. As it stands I'm not convinced there is in the case of Strange and Wanda having different outcomes with the Darkhold (my reasoning is up thread). However, with this much talk about it I'm sure we'll get those deep dives eventually and it'll be worthwhile to see what comes of it here and in Marvel studios.

 

[Davies]

Yeah, I hated hated hated this movie. Complaints that aren't about the abuse of female characters to the overwhelming joy of most of the audience.

1. Characters being depicted as horror movie villains is one thing. Characters acting like the idiotic protagonists of horror movies is another. WHY did they just stand around staring at the door when Wanda failed to appear through it?

2. Absolute lack of tension in the climax. Wanda starts to drain Amy. Strange sees Wanda draining Amy. Strange engages in complicated strategy to get to where they are, including extended fight scene. He nevertheless arrives just in the nick of time.

3. Repetition of the "I need you to watch my bod" from the first Dr. Strange movie.

But of course I'm probably just stirring the pot again.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sure. Again, these aren't real things, they're merely the product of decisions made by human writers, and they decided Psycho Mom trope for Wanda and Strange being able to handle it.

I wonder how people who have no experience with the comics but love the MCU see this; for a lot of us, we know Wanda's comic history, so her turning heel is inline with what we know (we also know what the Darkhold is), but for someone who only knows the character through Olsen's performance, I wonder...

As noted, its not like MCU version didn't have some issues from day one. She started with a heel-face turn after all.

 

[Asisreo]

WHY did they just stand around staring at the door when Wanda failed to appear through it?

It must have been comic relief because I was laughing the entire time during that scene.

2. Absolute lack of tension in the climax. Wanda starts to drain Amy. Strange sees Wanda draining Amy. Strange engages in complicated strategy to get to where they are, including extended fight scene. He nevertheless arrives just in the nick of time.

Movie magic, literally, never has real consequences, especially in this movie. When anyone can do anything all of the time, but only sometimes, your suspension of disbelief reaches a limit.

 

[RangerWickett]

How much flashback time do you want in a movie that's already two hours long, that needs to also show where Strange is at right now, and give at least some time to America Chavez?

You could probably do it in a minute or two. Like, when Strange goes to her orchard, and she says she's being reasonable, and Strange says no, she could try to just mind-whammy him then and there. Maybe he manages to fight free of some mindscape weirdness by casting a spell to conjure forth someone's greatest fear, and that's when we get to see a cascade of images from Wandavision, then a montage of her being corrupted by the Darkhold.

The trick for me, though, is that I don't want Wanda's agency taken away. I want her villainy to be the result of an intentional character choice, not an unexpected consequence or a situation where she's being victimized by an inanimate object she cannot later defeat. She's been manipulated by Strucker, Ultron, and Agatha, and she's lost loved ones to Thanos and even that S.W.O.R.D. guy whose name I forget.

It just frikkin sucks if she becomes a villain because she's gone cuckoo or because an evil book makes her do it.

Heck, going full nihilist would work for me. Maybe she watches other universes where she sees other Wandas and Pietros and Visions and various friends in the Avengers get murdered, and she becomes numb to it. You could have her say that she saw all their sacrifices be in vain, and it made her realize that the sacrifice she made - giving up Vision and her kids - was also pointless. And yes, she saw countless ways people suffered at the hands of different villains, but the thing was, at least the people who were doing the hurting were the ones in charge. And she decided that she wanted to be the one making decisions for herself.

She had all the power in the world and tried to play by the rules and lost people over and over again. So now she's going to make the rules.

---

Just present that on the screen. Sure, maybe the Darkhold is nudging what she sees, keeping her from seeing the paths where she uses her powers to make a positive difference. But we'd still be seeing her make a choice, with a motivation.

 

[Stalker0]

If this version of Wanda created her kids with magic in a magic bubble, how are there versions of her out there with the same kids not in a magic bubble? How did they come to exist?

My head cannon is that when Wanda first made her Tv reality, its the first time she touched into her Scarlet Witch powers, and got a glimpse of the multiverse. In it, she saw her kids from another reality, and that was the template she used to create her "magic kids".

 

[Stalker0]

The trick for me, though, is that I don't want Wanda's agency taken away. I want her villainy to be the result of an intentional character choice, not an unexpected consequence or a situation where she's being victimized by an inanimate object she cannot later defeat. She's been manipulated by Strucker, Ultron, and Agatha, and she's lost loved ones to Thanos and even that S.W.O.R.D. guy whose name I forget.

This point I can respect. In some ways it could have been a lot cooler if Wanda did just go full villain on her own, especially if people are right and its been a few years since Wandavision (so you don't need a mcguffin to her quickly). She stewed in her cabin for a while, and said, you know what.... f this, I am just done.

 

[trappedslider]

Yeah, I hated hated hated this movie. Complaints that aren't about the abuse of female characters to the overwhelming joy of most of the audience.

1. Characters being depicted as horror movie villains is one thing. Characters acting like the idiotic protagonists of horror movies is another. WHY did they just stand around staring at the door when Wanda failed to appear through it?

2. Absolute lack of tension in the climax. Wanda starts to drain Amy. Strange sees Wanda draining Amy. Strange engages in complicated strategy to get to where they are, including extended fight scene. He nevertheless arrives just in the nick of time.

3. Repetition of the "I need you to watch my bod" from the first Dr. Strange movie.

But of course I'm probably just stirring the pot again.

Tropes are not bad ymmv

 

[trappedslider]

I thought that was just Dr Strange conflating the Fantastic Four with the Fab Four.

There was indeed a lesser-known soul group known as the Fantastic Four, no relation to the Marvel characters, that formed in 1965, something that Strange would know, given his established knowledge of obscure music trivia.

 

[Davies]

Tropes are not bad

Except when they naughty word well are.