Dragonborn MAD

[MindWanderer]

Looking at the dragonborn paladin from KotS, I'm a bit concerned.

The dragonborn has two racial abilities that are keyed off its Constitution: Dragon Breath looks like it does 1d6+Con damage, and Draconic Heritage increases healing surge value by your Con modifier. The tiefling has a similar ability (Infernal Wrath), but it's keyed off Charisma, and tieflings get a Cha bonus anyway.

This means that if you're going to get any decent mileage out of being a Dragonborn, you need a decent Con score. Each class also seems to be dependent on two to three ability scores to be decent. So far, the only class that uses Con for class features is, speculatively, the fighter (and perhaps only a few fighter builds).

The dragonborn paladin, for instance, is problematic. Str and Cha are needed for paladin attacks, and the dragonborn gets bonuses to those, no problem. But it also needs Wis (for lay on hands and Holy Strike, also Shielding Smite which Corrin has, and perhaps Radiant Smite), and it needs Con for the dragonborn abilities. That's dependence on 4 stats. Ouch. And as you can see from the KotS character, it's really not getting much effectiveness out of a whole bunch of its abilities.

The only way I see of being an effective dragonborn is to choose a class that either needs Con (i.e. fighter, maybe) or that can get away with having only two good stats (like a cleric, maybe).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

There are options for which stat a dragonborn's breath weapon keys off of.

The thing I was surprised about with the KotS Dragonborn, is that it's breath weapon doesn't specify WHICH type of damage it does. I think you've got to pick one type that your dragonborn can do, not what type he's gonna do THIS encounter.

Fitz

 

[Cadfan]

Its not that bad.

Dragonborn Rogue, before ability score modifiers from race:

Str, 10
Con, 14
Dex, 16
Int, 10
Wis, 10
Cha, 14

That's 28 points on a 3e style point buy.

 

[Counterspin]

Given that everyone is going to be dependent on a variety stats, this isn't as big of a deal as it was in 3e, when MAD was restricted to only a couple of classes.

 

[deathdonut]

The way to get mileage out of your Dragonborn is rather to choose a class that doesn't need Strength.

There was already a dynamic in the game that encouraged raising a single one of each paired stat (str/con, dex/int, wis/cha). The dragonborn con reliance (assuming there's no way to "re-route" to another stat) simply means that the Str/Con decision should be con.

That means you are best off going with a caster or non-str type with dragonborn and using con at the expense of strength while not losing anything on your fort defense.

 

[Byronic]

What about Dragon Heritage?

"Draconic Heritage When a power or skill uses your Constitution modifier, you may use your Charisma modifier instead."

That should get rid of needing Con for the most part.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

[hijack]

Everytime I see MAD, I translate Mutually Assured Destruction ... which might even be applicable in this case.

[/hijack]

The dragonborn appears to get quite a few more bennies than some of the other races based on what we know at this point (half-elf, I'm looking at you). So I think the race can tolerate a bit of built-in MAD.

 

[MindWanderer]

There are options for which stat a dragonborn's breath weapon keys off of.

To hit, yes. To damage, no..

What about Dragon Heritage?

"Draconic Heritage When a power or skill uses your Constitution modifier, you may use your Charisma modifier instead."

That should get rid of needing Con for the most part.

Where did that come from? Draconic Heritage doesn't do that, and I can't find anything that does.

The way to get mileage out of your Dragonborn is rather to choose a class that doesn't need Strength.

There was already a dynamic in the game that encouraged raising a single one of each paired stat (str/con, dex/int, wis/cha). The dragonborn con reliance (assuming there's no way to "re-route" to another stat) simply means that the Str/Con decision should be con.

That means you are best off going with a caster or non-str type with dragonborn and using con at the expense of strength while not losing anything on your fort defense.

Which is highly unintuitive (given that the dragonborn is the new half-orc) and effectively "wastes" one of the dragonborn's two stat increases. Also, fighters, paladins, warlords, 2WF-rangers, melee clerics, and brawny rogues all need Str, where the only classes than use Cha but not Str are warlocks, trickster rogues, and nonmelee clerics


The thing that bugs me the most is is what deathdonut inadvertently pointed out: Dragonborn get a bonus to Str, but the optimal thing is to dump Str in favor of Con. That's a bum deal at best and a way to penalize new players at worst.

 

[TerraDave]

Given that everyone is going to be dependent on a variety stats

mmm....wizards are mostly int, warlocks mostly cha, rogues mostly dex...but, as noted, in the case of the dragonborn, this may just be a way of balancing the race.

 

[frankthedm]

Considering the game has created a notable subgroup of monsters designed to be fragged on a single hit, I'd say dragonborn ought to have to sacrifice something for that area breath attack.