D&D 5E Dragonborn (w/Fizbans) Still Suck?

[Ruin Explorer]

Nope: if you triple their Ki, whether straight up or by the book taking two shorts rests and doing three novas a day, they track precisely with the Spell Slots of Paladins, Rangers, and Artificers if you apply the Spell Points variant.

Innnnnteresting. I did not know that.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The difference between two races are like at best three or four minor game mechanics. Whereas your class will throw in dozens upon dozens of game mechanics to give your character power, and every level making that number grow higher and higher and higher.

There is no world out there where your racial abilities will be the determining factor in whether your character sucks or not.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I much prefer a mix of short and long rest abilities, and if I had to pick only one or the other it would be short rest. But, D&D’s gonna D&D I guess, and from 5th level on, prof bonus uses between long rests is at least as many uses per adventuring day as one use between short rests, even if you’re meeting that 6 encounter day with 2 short rests benchmark (which I know most groups don’t actually do most of the time). So, I’ll begrudgingly accept it, as long as they leave my precious Warlock alone.

I'm the same, but with the majority of magical power being specifically spells, an emphasis on daily resources would have been guaranteed even without considering how PCs regain HP.

Overall, I think the Fizban's dragonborn are okay. Are they good picks relative to things like half-elf? Probably not. Lacking darkvision remains a sticking point, as does the "breath weapon is an action" thing. But it's definitely a step up from the PHB dragonborn. I wouldn't say the new ones suck, though they're probably slightly weaker than average (as opposed to the old ones, which were notably weaker than the average race even in the PHB.)

There is no world out there where your racial abilities will be the determining factor in whether your character sucks or not.

Sure. But that's not the standard being applied--at least not by most folks. It's comparing these things that are implicitly "equal" options, for some reasonable range of "different things can be equal," but which clearly provide substantially less. Half-elf, for example, gives +1 extra flexible stat, 2 extra skills, Darkvision, an extra language (for how little that matters), and advantage on saving throws against being charmed (a niche but useful benefit--charmed is one of the most dangerous conditions to fall prey to, as it can cause you to hurt your allies). Will that set of things likely be the sole determining factor? No. But will they likely have a significant positive impact that would not be possible, nor compensated for, with the utter lack of features the PHB dragonborn offers? Yes.

And that's why "these options are supposed to be roughly equal but definitely aren't" is a much more useful standard here.

 

[Andras]

A Dragonborn Tempest Cleric with Thunder or Lightning breath could maximize their breath using Channel Divinity.

 

[Stormonu]

Still no Darkvision.

So meh.

Thank goodness. I may be weird, but I wish darkvision was a lot rarer than it currently is. Along the veins that the only PHB player race to have it would be Drow - with their sunlight vulnerability.

 

[Corinnguard]

I liked how a Dragonborn's use of their breath weapon is now tied to their Proficiency bonus, but I think I would have it where you can get back one use of it with a short rest and all uses back with a long rest. As for the AoE, I think the original AoE from the core rulebook should have been kept for them. And there should have been a Shape Breath feat in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons that would have allowed a Dragonborn to switch between a line, a cone or even a burst AoE. Just to mix things up.

Lastly, the Metallic Breath Weapon ought to have reflected each of the metallic dragons in 5e: Brass- Slow Breath, Bronze- Repulsion Breath, Copper-Slow Breath, Gold- Weakening Breath and Silver-Paralyzing Breath. Yes, I am a fan of the Metallic Dragonborn.

 

[Parmandur]

Innnnnteresting. I did not know that.

They obfuscate it a fair bit with flavor, but the Monk is mechanically the half-caster pair to the Warlock under the hood.

Honestly, I hope they lean into thst mechanical base in the future to back away from the Orientalist flavor...

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm the same, but with the majority of magical power being specifically spells, an emphasis on daily resources would have been guaranteed even without considering how PCs regain HP.

Spells could be encounter-based too if they wanted to go that route though- the warlock is proof of that. And 4e already figured out how to make HP an encounter-based resource, but 5e decided to throw that functionality out and only keep the aesthetics of healing surges. Honestly, 4e’s resource management system was pretty much the perfect execution of what every other edition tries to do with daily usage, if you ask me.

Overall, I think the Fizban's dragonborn are okay. Are they good picks relative to things like half-elf? Probably not. Lacking darkvision remains a sticking point, as does the "breath weapon is an action" thing. But it's definitely a step up from the PHB dragonborn. I wouldn't say the new ones suck, though they're probably slightly weaker than average (as opposed to the old ones, which were notably weaker than the average race even in the PHB.)

I don’t actually think darkvision is that big of a deal. It’s a flavor fail that dragonborn still don’t have it, but mechanically? Torches and oil are cheap, gold is useless, and light-producing cantrips are easy to come by. And characters with darkvision want a light source too, as long as challenges are set up in such a way that disadvantage on perception checks is a significant drawback. And I think having the breath weapon replace one attack makes it much better. It doesn’t totally fix it since characters without extra attack still don’t really want to use it most of the time, but it’s still a big step up for martial characters.

 

[Zardnaar]

Spells could be encounter-based too if they wanted to go that route though- the warlock is proof of that. And 4e already figured out how to make HP an encounter-based resource, but 5e decided to throw that functionality out and only keep the aesthetics of healing surges. Honestly, 4e’s resource management system was pretty much the perfect execution of what every other edition tries to do with daily usage, if you ask me.

I don’t actually think darkvision is that big of a deal. It’s a flavor fail that dragonborn still don’t have it, but mechanically? Torches and oil are cheap, gold is useless, and light-producing cantrips are easy to come by. And characters with darkvision want a light source too, as long as challenges are set up in such a way that disadvantage on perception checks is a significant drawback. And I think having the breath weapon replace one attack makes it much better. It doesn’t totally fix it since characters without extra attack still don’t really want to use it most of the time, but it’s still a big step up for martial characters.

Should have just bonus actioned it. Kind of equivalent to a weak lvl 2 spell then.

 

[TwoSix]

Innnnnteresting. I did not know that.

Can you imagine how much easier it would be to balance classes and produce new stuff if every class had the same amount of resources?

What a world that would be!