Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! - Dragonlance Nexus

Dragonhelm gets the scoop from Weis and Hickman on why there are no orcs in Krynn. Read More

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"World creation isn’t like a blender. You can’t just toss in tropes, hit pulse a few times, pour out something and claim ‘it’s unique’. Worlds have to be organic, as my wife likes to say. All the parts make up a living, breathing whole." feels like a reason to me. That is, they thought about it, made a world, and tried to have places or reasons for things.

and again, I can understand that feeling and still not agree with the outcome.

On the other hand "It's in a D&D book so it should be in every game " doesn't seem like a reason to me. Especially when its supplemented with an unspoken "and I want it now mostly because I know you said they aren't there." (I wonder how often that's the case or not).

Way back 200 years ago when the other thread started I shared a story about just that kind of player, and I 100% support that there is such a thing as an obstinate problem player, I just don't think that fits everyone of the examples

 

[Maxperson]

Ok, that's the real-life reason.

What's the in-game reason? Pretty sure that's what people were really asking.

They tell it to you.

"Tracy: “What people sometimes forget is that Orcs in Middle earth have a deep and specific history and origin as do their cousins the Uruk-Hai. That foundation simply didn’t exist in Krynn … ergo no orcs.”

The foundation and history for orcs appearing wasn't there. Ergo, no orcs.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

yeah out of story having an idea like "theme" or even "estetic" is a perfect answer. Even just "I don't like them" makes some sense... but I still feel 35ish years later the answer doesn't feel the same when orc isn't what orc was in 83

Orcs are old and tired and boring as a race and concept. They do not exist in my fantasy homebrew, either as antagonists or as PC options.

 

[Weiley31]

Aren't the Irda somwhat, kinda descended from Orcs or something?

Editor's Note: No wait, that's Ogres. Carry on.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The foundation and history for orcs appearing wasn't there. Ergo, no orcs.

this again (and I will rephrase form other thread since this is more appropriate) The Orcs of 1982 that made sense for (form what I know I wasn't here until 1995) but the orcs of 2022 are not 1 note created by the bad guy as a hoard of minnions... they are a living fully (well maybe mostly) fleshed out full of individuals .

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They do not exist in my fantasy homebrew

cool, I don't know you and I don't play in your homebrew, and I am not considering shelling out 50+ bucks for your book on your homebrew... I have said MANY times I limit things from world to world and campaign to campaign... but again no body is buying MY setting either.

 

[Remathilis]

They tell it to you.

"Tracy: “What people sometimes forget is that Orcs in Middle earth have a deep and specific history and origin as do their cousins the Uruk-Hai. That foundation simply didn’t exist in Krynn … ergo no orcs.”

The foundation and history for orcs appearing wasn't there. Ergo, no orcs.

I'd buy that explanation better if the Silvanesti, Qualinesti and Kagonesti elves didn't resemble the Sindar, Vanyar and Nandor so much...

 

[LordEntrails]

Orcs are old and tired and boring as a race and concept. They do not exist in my fantasy homebrew, either as antagonists or as PC options.

You know what race is really tired, boring and old? Humans. I mean come on. Middle of the road, uninteresting and the only reason they stick around is for having some sort of comparative baseline. Ugh!

 

[Stormonu]

She did like the script and approved it.

Weis Approves of Dragonlance Movie Script

SciFi.com, quickly becoming the best alternative source for news on the Dragonlance movies, has posted a few comments from Margaret Weis . ...

trollsmyth.blogspot.com

This interview below though seems like a lot of not saying much about the movie itself.
Though I think this bit from Tracy Hickman is very important.

What writers should be concerned about is if the structural and emotional core of their story is being portrayed. This has nothing to do with how accurate a reproduction of the book is found in the screenplay. George Strayton captured the spirit of our original story and told it in a new way. That’s George’s genius and I’m grateful both to him for it and to the producers who had the wisdom to bring both Margaret and me into the process.

As well as this bit from Margaret.

I want to thank Will and Karl and George and the producers for the dedication and caring they put into this film. It wasn’t a job to any of them. Just like the books were for Tracy and for me, this was a labor of love. I really hope that this does well, so that we can do the next books in the series!

Dragonlance Movie Interview with Weis, Hickman and Others

Recently, WarCry took the chance to interview the people behind the Dragonlance animated movie, which comes to DVD on January 15th. The interview gave us the chance to hear from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, the famed authors and creators of the Dragonlance series. We also heard from the...

www.escapistmagazine.com

Unlike the Complete Book of Elves, the producers haven't put out an apology for the cartoon (to my knowledge)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Unlike the Complete Book of Elves, the producers haven't put out an apology for the cartoon (to my knowledge)

wait side note, did the writers of the complete book of elves do so, and if so why... was it the bladesinger?!?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

You know what race is really tired, boring and old? Humans. I mean come on. Middle of the road, uninteresting and the only reason they stick around is for having some sort of comparative baseline. Ugh!

Eh, when it comes to fantasy games, I never play human PCs. I am one in real life, so why the heck would I play a fantasy one?

 

[Maxperson]

this again (and I will rephrase form other thread since this is more appropriate) The Orcs of 1982 that made sense for (form what I know I wasn't here until 1995) but the orcs of 2022 are not 1 note created by the bad guy as a hoard of minnions... they are a living fully (well maybe mostly) fleshed out full of individuals .

Lack of foundation for something to exist in the game world would be just as appropriate in 2082 as it was in 1982. World building is world building. If you just toss stuff into the world without any rhyme or reason, that's anti-world building, since nothing it is not being built, but rather just a segment of something that is tossed in haphazardly.

 

[darjr]

Eh, there was at least one Orc and they are mythical in Dragonlance as far as I know. So I would rather not but I wouldn’t mind and roll with it.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd buy that explanation better if the Silvanesti, Qualinesti and Kagonesti elves didn't resemble the Sindar, Vanyar and Nandor so much...

Other than there being three, I don't see much resemblance. None of the Krynn elves resembled the Vanyar. I can see the Silvanesti elves as Sindar, but at some point you can't help but have some resemblance to some elf offshoot of Tolkien's. He varied them pretty well.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

SO if those are the reasons, there is no reason (other then tradition) to not include them today.

What reason is there to include them, other than tradition?

 

[D1Tremere]

Makes perfect sense. If someone really had to play an orc, I'd just fluff it as a hobgoblin from a savage tribe anyway.

Not really necessary. Just because Orcs aren't native doesn't mean there aren't any. Spelljamming, magic gates, etc. Make it possible for any race to be in any setting in atleast small numbers.

 

[Maxperson]

What reason is there to include them, other than tradition?

That's very true. There is no reason other than tradition to include orcs. People want orcs in because orcs have been in and should be an option. That's tradition.

 

[Cadence]

Not really necessary. Just because Orcs aren't native doesn't mean there aren't any. Spelljamming, magic gates, etc. Make it possible for any race to be in any setting in atleast small numbers.

Why does the world need spelljamming and magic gates? If those are things, then it does certainly open the possibilities for at least non-native lots of stuff.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I recall the reason orcs (and halflings) weren't included was they were "too Tolkien". I glad to see I was right.

Still, with orcs being as ubiquitous as they are now, I don't think they would be out of the place any longer. More people think of Warcraft than Tolkien these days.

Well that's just sad.

 

[Von Ether]

You know what race is really tired, boring and old? Humans. I mean come on. Middle of the road, uninteresting and the only reason they stick around is for having some sort of comparative baseline. Ugh!

In one sci-fi setting of mine, the humans ARE the space "orcs." On the scale of where space-faring species developed, Earth is a high gravity world. Compared to all the tall, slender aliens, some of who can glide, humans are squat, heavy and super strong. An international incident can be caused by just not watching where you're going. And always be aware of your surroundings.

"Did you know that humans have to use metal chairs!"