DS9-Better of the trek shows?

[Rackhir]

I think Startrek VI was a lot more cerebral - Kirk unable and unwilling to accept the chance for peace with his enemies because of all he experienced due to them, members on all sides going even further and trying to work against this peace for the same and similar reasons...

One important plot element that got cut out of the movie was that Kirk's son (from ST2) had been killed in one of the colony raids that the Klingon obstructionists were staging. Which was the main reason why he was so angry with the Klingons. Wait, wasn't he killed in ST3? Perhaps it was his mother that got killed then.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One important plot element that got cut out of the movie was that Kirk's son (from ST2) had been killed in one of the colony raids that the Klingon obstructionists were staging. Which was the main reason why he was so angry with the Klingons. Wait, wasn't he killed in ST3? Perhaps it was his mother that got killed then.

That wasn´t cut off the movie, was it? I remember a scene where he talks either to Spock or into its log and mentions that he blames (rightfully) the Klingons for the Death of his son. I think that was even used in the Klingon trial against him...

But either way, that has nothing to do with why Startrek I was cerebral.

 

[Harmon]

Kirk's son was a scientist on the Genesis Project that Khan stole (the second movie).

In the 3rd movie he was investigating the Genesis planet, where he got killed by Christopher (crap, forgot his name- Jim from Taxi, Doctor Brown from Back to the Future- anyways) who was a Klingon. Kirk killed him and escaped in destruction of the planet on his ship.

Kirk has always disliked Klingons and I wish they had partaken in his death.

Oh, and ST isn't very cerebral- its just a fun watch.

Back to DS9- could someone explain to me the religious significance of Sisko and why he was important to the Bajornins (sp)? I have never understood that.

 

[The_Universe]

It's the first Star Trek movie that has more action and edge-of-seat thriller.

But a true Trek story tend to be more cerebral, like The Motion Picture the TOS pilot episode, "The Cage."

If I want less than cerebral, I'd watch Star Wars. After all, even a village idiot can understand the theme of good vs. evil.

I'd watch The Cage (or the two-part rehash, the Menagerie) a thousand times before I sat through Star Trek the motion picture, again. You can compare the two all you want, but I don't feel that they're at all alike. Hell, the best parts of ST: TMP were Kirk vs. the Bureucracy. The Cage at least had an interesting mystery (and they used a phaser cannon!) What does TMP have to compare to that?

Boring dialogue with the somewhat humanized intelligence of a 1970's space probe? The early doings of the cast of the WB's Seventh Heaven? Ridge-headed Klingons?

OK - I'll give you ridge-head Klingons. But that's where I draw the line!

 

[Darthjaye]

Sisko was created by the Prophets. They arranged for his father to meet his mother so he would be born. He had always been destined to be the Emissary. It's all explained in the last two years of the series. As for it being or not being cerebral, it depends on which series you watched. TNG and DS9 were both very cerebral most of the time. TOS wasn't so much. Voyager not at all in my opinion. I never really got into Enterprise so I couldn't give an educated guess as to where it falls.

 

[pennywiz]

DS9 seemed a little pretentious and never really followed through on the promise of ST. It shoehorned the pseudo-religious material about the Emissary into the ST universe, but not in a credible way. When DS9 tried to embrace the typical melodrama of ST in its plots and character relationships, it either went for over-dramatic displays (different from melodrama) or it couldn't help allowing the director and actors to virtually wink at the camera/audience. It fell flat in a lot of ways that the DS9 fanatical fan-base tend to gloss over or ignore. That's a shame because a lot of them are very vocal about the short-comings of other ST series but such arguments from fans who see no wrong in their own favorite make it hard to listen to them at all.

 

[Rackhir]

DS9 seemed a little pretentious and never really followed through on the promise of ST. It shoehorned the pseudo-religious material about the Emissary into the ST universe, but not in a credible way. When DS9 tried to embrace the typical melodrama of ST in its plots and character relationships, it either went for over-dramatic displays (different from melodrama) or it couldn't help allowing the director and actors to virtually wink at the camera/audience. It fell flat in a lot of ways that the DS9 fanatical fan-base tend to gloss over or ignore. That's a shame because a lot of them are very vocal about the short-comings of other ST series but such arguments from fans who see no wrong in their own favorite make it hard to listen to them at all.

Are you suggesting that people who are fanatically devoted to something might be excessively critical of similar things, yet can't see the flaws in what they are devoted to? Good thing that only happens with isolated geek groups...

 

[Mallus]

It shoehorned the pseudo-religious material about the Emissary into the ST universe, but not in a credible way.

Why wasn't it credible? There's precendent in ST for alien cultures that worship ancient computers, advanced beings of pure energy, etc. The Prophets were just weird space-time lifeforms that lived in a wormhole. Tradtionally, these gods would have been broken, punished by their parents, or starved for apples while the Enterprise bombarded them with phaser fire from orbit... because you know, if its worshipped it, it must be evil...

All DS9 did was twist the formula a little and introduce a race of god-aliens that weren't half bad. I found it refreshing. I saw it as a backhanded postmodern --look, our fake space gods are true-- endorsement of faith.

When DS9 tried to embrace the typical melodrama of ST in its plots and character relationships

Actually, DS9 --for better or worse-- had character relationships that were quite unlike the other shows. They developed gradually, over time, and were must richer for it.

it couldn't help allowing the director and actors to virtually wink at the camera/audience.

When? Where?

It fell flat in a lot of ways that the DS9 fanatical fan-base tend to gloss over or ignore.

Or maybe the 'DS9 fanatical fanbase' just found something in the show that you didn't, or at least didn't work for you?

 

[Harmon]

So the Prophets manipulated Sisko's life so that he would chose to join Star Fleet, have his wife killed by the Borg, and be given the command of the station at Baijor or was he pre destined by their influence to be the Emissary (which means he had no choice in his life, just what the Prophets allowed him to have between birth and the moment when he became the Emissary)?

I recall something about the Prophets being aliens that did not preceive time in a linaer fashion (they saw all moments in time at the same exact moment or something like that). I suppose that would be because they lived within a Worm Hole, where Space/Time is warped beyond even our theortical understanding (even Hakings says he doesn't completely understand Worm Hole theory). How is it that beings that lived in such a fashion would even care about the people of Baijor or its people? More over how would the people of Baijor even know of the Prophets? And why would they worship them?

 

[DonTadow]

When I was a child, I learned early that there were different versions of STar Treks fans. I grew up with 3 brothers and a dad, all of us treckies, all of us for different reasons.

My dad and brother were both fans of the original series. They loved the action and space cowboy type stories the best from TNG. Thus they were only moderate fans of DS9. HOwever, they were both huge fans of Voyager.

Me, I loved the stories and engrossing "cerebral" plots that both series had. I loved the episodes that threatened intense action but was solved with simple mystery investigation. Those were the best, having a physical challenge in your way but solving it with your mind. DS9 produced a few more of these types of episodes and had episodes in which there was no danger whatsoever, just a story to be told "Bwadah Bwadah Bing". So that became my show after.

My little brother was facinated by the exploration of the episode and the different races and such. Believe it or not his favorite in the series is enterprises because he feels the "the serioes finally got back to its roots".

Three different types of treckie completely different reasons for liking the series of shows.