D&D (2024) Dual Wielding

[ECMO3]

I'm not sure about that, maybe the spell says something about it? I haven't seen those.

I've only really seen people use Heat Metal on people's armor, myself.

So what about the Battlemaster disarm attack or the Fear spell? I'm sure you have seen people use those.

Can I just use a different action to avoid having to drop my weapon on my turn? Also with the Fear spell especially, you can't even take the attack action in order to be able to drop the weapon.

The new PHB rules glossary.

Do you have the wording from the glossary?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So you can drop a weapon off turn at will but not on turn?

I do not believe this is the case.

Someone taking something from you is not dropping it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No. You're just equating "letting go" on someone else's turn (something that is not in the rules) with "dropping" on your turn. I can see how it seems to you that it is the same thing, but it isn't.

What? How is letting go of an object and dropping an object not the same thing? Either you can do it as a free action or you don't!

Thrown weapons aren't "dropped weapons". They are thrown weapons. Thrown weapons, IME are rarely picked up before the combat ends. Dropped weapons are often needed (desired) again while combat is still raging. And are usually dropped as an action economy exploit, while thrown weapons are thrown as attacks. It's really not the same thing.

It is the same thing in a sense that you need to keep track of whether you have the weapon with you or not. Which I really do not think is particularly arduous in either case.

The new rules don't allow those things. They're just poorly worded enough to make fun of for sounding like they might.

I mean, then they allow those things. That's what the poor wording does for the rules. And even for a houserule or an errata, there ideally should be a consistent wording that wouldn't allow these exploits, but would still allow rapid weapon swapping, (assuming that was a desired feature.)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So what about the Battlemaster disarm attack or the Fear spell? I'm sure you have seen people use those.

They MAKE you drop it as part of THEIR action.

Can I just use a different action to avoid having to drop my weapon on my turn?

Huh? You mean with Heat Metal? You've never had to drop it. You just take damage if you don't.

Also with the Fear spell especially, you can't even take the attack action in order to be able to drop the weapon.

You mean if you're Feared and Heated?

Do you have the wording from the glossary?

I don't have the book. I paused pages on one of the YouTube videos (probably Sly's) and read it there. I've no idea what timestamp it's on. We should ask someone who has the book, but I'm 100% sure that it says this in the same place that it talks about drawing and stowing as part of your Attack - it also says "drop".

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Someone taking something from you is not dropping it.

It is the exact same physical process of letting go of the object, except in the former case someone else is also holding it. That one would be a free action and the other not would be blatantly absurd and terrible rules writing.

 

[ECMO3]

They MAKE you drop it as part of THEIR action.

But if it takes an interact to drop your weapon you can't.

It is just like Dissonant Whispers MAKES you move as a reaction on THEIR action, but if you don't have a reaction or if your movement is 0 you don't move.

You mean if you're Feared and Heated?

No the Fear spell makes enemies who fail their save drop what they are holding (no turn specified), become frightened and dash away from the caster on their turn.

Relevant parts bolded:

Fear:
"You project a phantasmal image of a creature’s worst fears. Each creature in a 30-foot cone must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or drop whatever it is holding and become frightened for the duration.

While frightened by this spell, a creature must take the Dash action and move away from you by the safest available route on each of its turns, unless there is nowhere to move. If the creature ends its turn in a location where it doesn’t have line of sight to you, the creature can make a Wisdom saving throw. On a successful save, the spell ends for that creature."

So the spell makes the creature drop what they are is holding, but under the new rules they have to take the attack action to drop what they are holding and the spell prevents them from taking the attack action.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

What? How is letting go of an object and dropping an object not the same thing? Either you can do it as a free action or you don't!

You're jumping back and forth between real-life logic and rules. Which is fine, I am too, but you're just simply doing it backwards from what the RAW means for you to.

When you're personally intentionally acting, it is generally your turn. When someone else is acting it is their turn. If they take something from you, it is covered by THEIR object interaction. It is not part of your action economy if you need to roll a saving throw to try to stop them, nor is it part of your action economy if you choose to let them take it.

It is the same thing in a sense that you need to keep track of whether you have the weapon with you or not. Which I really do not think is particularly arduous in either case.

I mean, I've explained why I don't like it much (it's not a big deal either way) and so has @Charlaquin. To reiterate - though I wish I didn't have to - it's because people sometimes forget that they dropped it (this would be similar to your example if they just kept throwing axes well beyond the number of axes they actually have) and draw it again, or attack with it again, sometimes resulting in a backtrack of a turn, if someone points it out. The "where did I leave it" part is secondary, but still important when you want to use it again (more important than where your thrown weapons are left, which can normally be totally forgotten and dealt with with "I go pick them up" after combat is over).

I mean, then they allow those things. That's what the poor wording does for the rules. And even for a houserule or an errata, there ideally should be a consistent wording that wouldn't allow these exploits, but would still allow rapid weapon swapping, (assuming that was a desired feature.)

Again, we don't really know what the rules are yet - we know what some rules are, and people have been making fun of those rules, often using rules that no longer exist to make the new rules sound "more confusing" than they actually are.

Don't get me wrong - I think that a few of the new rules are poorly worded! But they're often not as "bad" as claimed, when people are mushing them together with assumptions that are wrong.

 

[ECMO3]

I don't have the book. I paused pages on one of the YouTube videos (probably Sly's) and read it there. I've no idea what timestamp it's on. We should ask someone who has the book, but I'm 100% sure that it says this in the same place that it talks about drawing and stowing as part of your Attack - it also says "drop".

Sly's video shows part of the attack action in the rulkes glossary and it says you can either "equip or unequip one weapon".

The part that is visibile does not mention that you can't drop it.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It is the exact same physical process of letting go of the object, except in the former case someone else is also holding it. That one would be a free action and the other not would be blatantly absurd and terrible rules writing.

Not sure that I agree. There have always been parts of the game that make you do things when it isn't your turn that have nothing to do with your own action economy.

But if it takes an interact to drop your weapon you can't.

IF it takes one, but it doesn't need to.

It is just like Dissonant Whispers MAKES you move as a reaction on THEIR action, but if you don't have a reaction or if your movement is 0 you don't move.

Only because that one uses your reaction. Other things cause you to do things without your own actions. Lots of other things.

No the Fear spell makes enemies who fail their save drop what they are holding (no turn specified), become frightened and dash away from the caster on their turn.

Right. If it says you drop it, then you drop it. No action specified.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Sly's video shows part of the attack action in the rulkes glossary and it says you can either "equip or unequip one weapon".

The part that is visibile does not mention that you can't drop it.

Well, it wasn't there then. I'm 100% sure that I read it, though.