Duergar with 2 Charisma

[zlorf]

Charisma

Why do you think im using as a dump stat? I asked the question to see what ways someone plays a chr of 2, hey i can put 6 to str, con, wis, int or dex. The fact that a standard Duergar has 4 chr, seems to me im actually closer to a normal duergar than say if i use a 13.
I actually have a better set of stats which i could use, but was interested in the possibilities of playing a character with such as extremely lowly stat as 2.

After reading all the good comments, including yours, i decided to look through the MM. Yes Dire rats, crocs, shrikers etc do have low chr. Elves have 8, dwarves 6, Duergar 4. And as someone suggested its seems the charisma score relates to more of a aura or presences than looks, beauty etc.

At the moment the party of 4 may actually consist of 3 Duergar, which would actually work well in terms of actually working as a team. The other may be a assimar (sp?) poor b*astard *grin*

I probably will end up going with the other stats, mainly because roleplaying a chr of 2 would be difficult to maintain for long periods of time and probably hard on the DM too to keep it in check.

You last comment about real life...and associating it with the player (me) is either tongue in cheek or offensive. Judging by your picture, i would say your must be talking about yourself, so no offence taken

Cheers
Zlorf

Only the unpleasant ones, rats, crocodiles, spiders squids and the like. Ones that most people don't have qualms about putting down.

IMO a player who uses Cha as a dump stat to the degree of a ‘2‘ should enjoy the thrills of ostracism every session. It is kind of mean, especially if the player suffered through that sort of treatment in real life, but that is how the world would treat them.

Why do I picture a mouthful of ultra-pollished dwarven 'bling'?

 

[zlorf]

Charimsa 2

Yes a rock thats me.

Animated object has a chr of 1 (picture the animated candellabra)

Ugliness seems to have nothing to do with Chrisma, just have a look though the MM and see
what hideous beast have quite good or even excellent charisma.

Funny people talk about min/max...i actually dont to be honest, though im not going to complete ignore the obvious adv/disadj of creating a certain type of character. My other stats are with out the +2 con and -4 chr:
16,9,13,12,13,14 compared with 15,6,13,8,17,13. Even if I dumped chr onto the 9, i would pretty much have the same character with better chr.

Does a Duergar with higher chr say 10, have no problems walking into a town and sociallize with the locals..unlikely. The town guard would probably stop him in his tracks.

I plan to be covered in a cloak, get people to buy stuff for me. i could stay out of town and pay someone to buy stuff for me .if i could persude them in the first place. I would kill them when they returned..or go after them if they didnt

But i agree with most the 2 chr would be hard to pull off.

Cheer
Zlorf

The character should be utterly forgettable, lacking in confidence, unable to express himself, always staying in the background, and probably pretty plain looking. Ugliness would stand out. Nondistinctive. If you walked into a room with them sitting in the corner, you might not even notice them. Something with a 0 charisma is an object, not a being. Keep that in mind. With a 2 charisma, youre just a little bit more mentally stimulating than a rock.

 

[zlorf]

Charisma Too

Party of 4 , with a possibilty of 3 Duergars... I say your comments are well off the mark

I only picked Duergar because someone else did after thinking i was going to play a chaos gnome. I didnt even know what bonus/negitive Duergars had. Hey i like Dwarves and now i like Duergars.

Charisma seems to be broken once you have a party of the same race, because most races that have low charisma seem to tollerate each other to a certain degree.

Cheers
Zlorf

Almost no self-awareness, absolutely dislikable (hate on first sight). In fact, that's the guy that will never be picked to be in a party, that player would have a hell of a time explaining why he should be traveling with the rest.

 

[zlorf]

Charisma Two

To me it would be difficult to know a character chrisma or personallity if you dont interact with them. To say someone with low chrisma should be targetted, would be like saying attack the strongest one or the intelligent one. I guess for str you can base it on what he's carrying or his physic, but for charisma it would have to be some insults shouted by the character or maybe he seams less of a threat because he doesnt have the aura of others.

Negotiation would be difficult and yes even if he was in the same room with others.

Crime.. yes it would be hard to convince anyone..."hey im a Duergar..really"

Cheers
Zlorf

That's how I consider an average (10) personality. I consider a low personality to be someone who people actively dislike on sight. In a fight, he's the one first to be targetted. In a negotiation, his very presence makes it harder for the others to negotiate (guilt by association?). And if a NPC has to find a patsy to pin a crime on, he'll be the first one they think of. After all, who would believe him if he denies it?

 

[zlorf]

Actually i have a similar story of my own. I played MUD once and got my character to 102th lvl..you should of seen the mayhem i caused when i decide to become a player killer..it was so much fun...

You can read the rest in my 24 page blog on http://www.charisma2.com.au/

Cheers
Zlorf

I find this topic amusing. For the Age of Worms campaign I am running, one of my players actually rolled a 3 for one of his ability scores and chose to be a half-orc, plummetting his Charisma to a 1. He roleplays this handicap as only speaking in one-word sentences, not for a lack of Intelligence (which is an 11), but simply because he hates talking and never knows what to say. It has been a pretty entertaining roleplay (as half-orcs usually are).

Alternatively, think of the character with a 2 Charisma like the guy at conventions who insists on telling you about his 96th-level fighter and how he once went toe-to-toe with Vecna as if you cared. I cannot stand that guy.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Elves have 8, dwarves 6, Duergar 4.

Note that these aren't general elves, dwarves, or duergar. They're 1st-level warriors with the standard array, which puts an 8 into Cha. A completely neutral character (human) would have all 10's or 11's. A neutral elf with the all 10's line would be Str 10, Dex 12, Con 8, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10.

 

[prosfilaes]

To me it would be difficult to know a character chrisma or personallity if you dont interact with them.

If you've seen the first Superman movie, I think Christopher Reeves shows you clearly how you can see someone's Charisma without interacting with them; the way he changes between Superman and Clark Kent is partially a change in apparent Charisma, as you can see from the scene with the mirror.

People with high Charismas smile, they hold themselves upright, they approach people. People with low Charismas don't meet other's eyes, they slouch, they interact at inappropriate distances or from inappropriate directions. I think some of how you carry yourself would show through even in battle.

Charisma seems to be broken once you have a party of the same race, because most races that have low charisma seem to tollerate each other to a certain degree.

They tolerate each other, but I don't think it fundamentally changes things. Races with low Charismas just don't get along with each other well, IMO.

Ugliness seems to have nothing to do with Chrisma, just have a look though the MM and see
what hideous beast have quite good or even excellent charisma.

The definition of Charisma in D&D includes physical attractiveness. Frankly, I think the RAW definition of Charisma is horribly confusing; what is "actual strength of personality", and what on Earth does it have to do with "persuasiveness"? I think the MM provides more confusion here than help, and it's easy to just have Charisma mean charisma in most situations.

 

[ARandomGod]

The definition of Charisma in D&D includes physical attractiveness. Frankly, I think the RAW definition of Charisma is horribly confusing; what is "actual strength of personality", and what on Earth does it have to do with "persuasiveness"? I think the MM provides more confusion here than help, and it's easy to just have Charisma mean charisma in most situations.

It does meantion it, it does. Clearly on the other hand that part of the entry is antiquated and a holdover from when the definition of the charisma stat was, well, realated to overal actual Charisma, the word. Now charisma has game mechanics to it, and those game mechanics aren't related to physical appearance in any way*.

What is "strength of personality"? What does that have to do with persuasiveness? Answer, it's your willpower, the force by which your personality affects the world.

Now look at the game mechanics of wisdom and notice that they're all perception mechanics, and ask yourself how THAT relate to a will save? Seriously, the stats have slowly evolved over time. Wisdom is really perception with the will save thrown on for no reason. Charisma is really willpower with no save and physical appearance tacked on for no reason.

*Edit: Charisma, the word, doesn't actually refer to physical attractiveness either... but to an inner attractiveness, personal magnetism, or inner power to influence.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Why do you think im using as a dump stat? I asked the question to see what ways someone plays a chr of 2, hey i can put 6 to str, con, wis, int or dex. The fact that a standard Duergar has 4 chr, seems to me im actually closer to a normal duergar than say if i use a 13.
I actually have a better set of stats which i could use, but was interested in the possibilities of playing a character with such as extremely lowly stat as 2.

After reading all the good comments, including yours, i decided to look through the MM. Yes Dire rats, crocs, shrikers etc do have low chr. Elves have 8, dwarves 6, Duergar 4. And as someone suggested its seems the charisma score relates to more of a aura or presences than looks, beauty etc.

At the moment the party of 4 may actually consist of 3 Duergar, which would actually work well in terms of actually working as a team. The other may be a assimar (sp?) poor b*astard *grin*

I probably will end up going with the other stats, mainly because roleplaying a chr of 2 would be difficult to maintain for long periods of time and probably hard on the DM too to keep it in check.

You last comment about real life...and associating it with the player (me) is either tongue in cheek or offensive. Judging by your picture, i would say your must be talking about yourself, so no offence taken

Cheers
Zlorf

An "average" duergar has a Cha of 6 or 7, not 4. The MM uses the elite ability array for the duergar warrior, dropping the 8 from that array into Cha. This is what happens when WotC designer doesn't think about what he's doing, but just plays the numbers game. A humanoid with a Cha of 6 or 7 is playable, but is in all likelihood borderline mentally disturbed and/or disabled. Most duergar would fall into the former category. As I say, Cha 2 represents a creature with almost no self-awareness, and hence almost no ability whatsoever to interact with anything else in its environment in other than a purely instinctive manner. In his dealings with others, your duergar with a Cha 2 is going to act like a reptile; he is going to barely notice them unless they are of the same species or are a threat (in which case he decides whether to run or fight). Not quite as bad as vermin, mindless undead, or mindless construct, but certainly less sociable than any mammal on the planet.

In my view, those around a Cha 2 duergar are not going to ignore him, as suggested by others. They are likely to regard him with fear, revulsion, or pity. They certainly aren't going to take heed of anything he says, but will certainly respond to his behaviour.

But then, unless his reptilian Cha score is a result of occurrences late in life, your Cha 2 duergar is unlikely to be saying anything, since it's against the odds that he ever learnt to speak. Not because he may not have the intelligence to do so, but because he just didn't associate the noises people were making with their mouths while looking at him as something he ought to pay any attention to.

As I say, I don't regard a character with Cha 2 as playable.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[nittanytbone]

Quote from SRD:
"Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness."

Your duergar is significantly below average in all of the above and nearly crippled in at least some of them.

Back in the 1E days, characters with such low charisma could only be assassins. I would extrapolate this interpretation as a total disregard for human/sentient life, perhaps out of hatred at one's disfigured face and social ostracism as well as some sort of borderline insanity or mental condition (such as autism).